How To Say Top Of The Morning In Irish
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When spoken with an Irish accent, it generally sounds like Top o' ta Mornin ta ya. But the prase itself is top of the morning to you.
toppa da mornin to ya! (top of the morning to you)
Top of the Morning to ya!Another Answer"Good morning" is the most common greeting in England.
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Each morning, a colleague of mine greets me with the phrase:
I've tried to figure out what the meaning of this really is and how to properly respond, however there seems to be dozens of interpretations as to what this phrase actually means.
Does anyone know what the origin and original meaning of this phrase is?
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I just said this in a message to a friend in N.I., and she came straight back with "and the rest of the day to yourself". I'd never heard this before - so came looking! – user44402 May 17 '13 at 7:11
I refer to the 1796 usage by the Englishman in his book, shown by the link in @Hugo's answer–which doesn't do much to answer the question, which is the origin of the phrase. – Arm the good guys in America Jan 12 '19 at 13:41
The phrase appears in Walter Scott's Guy Mannering (1815). Where did he get it from? – Arm the good guys in America Jan 12 '19 at 13:59
Also what does top mean in the expression? OED is ridiculously imprecise by giving the phrase as an example of both 'the earliest part of a period' and 'The best or choicest part; the cream, flower, pick'. – Arm the good guys in America Jan 12 '19 at 14:04
The phrase is Irish in origin but now very rarely used in Ireland (except as a sterotypical "Irishism"). It simply means "the best of the morning to you" - perhaps from the idea of unhomogenised milk, where the cream rises to the top. An appropriate response might be a simple "thank you" although the traditional response would be "And the rest of the day to yourself."
Terrible attempts at Irish accents, dancing a jig and leprechaun costumes are entirely optional while saying this.
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I notice you say "now" - my Galway father-in-law is heading for 80 and uses it so it may be his generation. – Wudang Dec 12 '11 at 18:41
The milk reference is intriguing, how'd you come about that? – hafichuk Dec 12 '11 at 20:04
@hafichuk The "perhaps" is very important- it's a bit of guesswork (although I think I've heard the theory before somewhere, I can't place where). Bringing the milk in is/was a typical morning activity so there seems a natural linkage. – Waggers Dec 12 '11 at 22:34
Marking this as the best answer that includes a response. Thanks! – hafichuk Jan 8 '13 at 15:50
It sounds like a very typical literal translation of what would be a perfectly natural and logical-sounding phrase in Irish, barr na maidine duit/ort. Only problem is I've never heard or seen that phrase anywhere in Irish, and the only sources I can find to support its existence are forum posts on the Internet claiming with no further evidence that it is the origin of the English phrase. Looks like a bit of a red herring. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Mar 3 '14 at 13:38
This was used in Theodore Cyphon, or, The benevolent Jew: a novel, Volume 3 by George Walker, published in 1796. The protagonist is greeted not long after landing on the shore of Essex:
"Halloo ! you teney" cried one, " the top of the morning to you. Have you seen pass a tall chap, in a light blue coat, with striped trowsers."
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Wonderful find! I had no idea the phrase was centuries old. Doesn't quite explain the original meaning, but well worth a +1. – hafichuk Dec 12 '11 at 20:01
It's always a good idea to include a link to where you got that information. Otherwise it's plagiarism – Java D Aug 16 '13 at 12:30
@JavaD: The 1796 links to the book in Google Books. The book was published in 1796 and is 217 years old so I expect is out of copyright. I also clearly state the title of the book and the author and am not attempting to pass off the 217-year-old book as my own work. I did search Google Books myself though to find this quotation. If it was from the OED, I'd say so. Thanks! – Hugo Aug 16 '13 at 13:45
@JavaD a proper source without a link does not plagarism make. Otherwise everyone before the WWW would be plagarist. – McKay Jan 17 '20 at 17:05
@Hugo Just because it's not copyrighted anymore doesn't counter a plagiarism claim. Turning in a paper that you bought off the internet with the legal rights to reuse however you wish, doesn't make it not plagiarism. (Your source to the article does however counter his plagiarism claim) – McKay Jan 17 '20 at 17:08
The phrase emerges from two related meanings of "top," was a common greeting throughout the United Kingdom in the 19th century, and fell out of use only to be revived as a so-called Irish expression by American filmmakers looking for ways to distinguish Irish characters.
The Oxford English Dictionary lists "top of the morning" under "Top, n.1," 17.a., where top means "The best or choicest part; the cream, flower, pick. Now esp. in the top of the morning, as an Irish morning greeting (cf. 13)." (13 refers to a temporal meaning for top: "Of time: The earliest part of a period; the beginning.") It's possible for either one of these meanings of "top" to come into play, even in a punning sense: the best of the morning and the beginning of the morning. I suggest that both meanings may be enmeshed together.
An example of the early use of "top" referring to cream is in a sermon on vanity by Anglican bishop Ezekiel Hopkins (d. 1690), given originally in 1668:
"The soul, next to angels, is the very top and cream of the whole creation."
This idiomatic use would work its way into a greeting over the next century. I agree with the lexicographers for the OED in grouping this meaning with "top of the morning" used in other early greetings.
That said, there are early sources attesting to "top of the morning" being a period of time rather than a greeting. Here is John Worlidge in A compleat system of husbandry and gardening (London, 1716), p. 143:
[...] especially if [the Plantanus trees] grow near together, they afford a very pleasant dark shade, and perfume the Air in the Months of June and July with their fragrant Blossoms, and entertain a mellifluous Army of Bees, from the top of the Morning, till the cool and dark Evening compels their return.
This feels like a description of time, noting when the bees will be out among the trees. The usage as a temporal reference comes up again at the end of the century in a book titled Vocal harmony. Merry fellow's companion, a collection of songs printed in the last decade of the eighteenth century (p.5, "The Little Jew"):
'TWAS the top of the morning so pleasant and clear ...
The phrase establishes a setting for an otherwise mundane song.
So how did this temporal marker become an idiomatic Irish greeting? Evidence suggests there was an intermediate period where the expression was used beyond Ireland, like in Scotland. Here is Dick Ostler in Sir Walter Scott's The Heart of Mid-Lothian (1818), ch. 29, speaking to the heroine as she travels near York:
Dick Ostler, who either had risen early or neglected to go to bed, either circumstance being equally incident to his calling, hollowed out after her — “The top of the morning to you, Moggie. Have a care o’ Gunderby Hill, young one. Robin Hood’s dead and gwone, but there be takers yet in the vale of Bever."
Dick is almost certainly a low Scot or a working class man in the north of England (where this part of the novel takes place). This makes his turn of phrase curious: Scott perhaps relied on his audience knowing this as a Scot or popular idiom. Similarly, the instance from George Walker's gothic novel Theodore Cyphon, or, The benevolent Jew: a novel, Volume 3, first published in 1796, features the idiom spoken not by Irish people in Ireland, but a group of "four sturdy men, whose countenances wore every lineament of hard inhumanity," about nine miles up the road from landing in Essex.
What, then, made this expression Irish or Irish-American? Perhaps only because the expression survived amongst Irish (and Irish-American) speakers longer? Blogger and amateur dialect researcher Ben T. Smith explains how the expression is more archaic than Irish, a form that persisted across British and Irish varieties of English through at least the Victorian period. By the early 20th century, meanwhile, a guidebook to Irish speech (English as We Speak It in Ireland, by P.W. Joyce, 1910) explains the greetings for good morning, where top of the morning takes a backseat to another common greeting:
"To the ordinary salutation, 'Good-morrow,' which is heard everywhere, the usual response is 'Good-morrow kindly.' 'Morrow Wat,' said Mr. Loyd. 'Morrow kindly,' replied Wat. ('Knocknagow.') 'The top of the morning to you' is said everywhere, North and South." (15)
However, it had fallen out of use by the time that mid-20th century American filmmakers had picked it up as an Irish colloquialism, like in the Disney film Darby O'Gill and the Little People or in the music of Bing Crosby in the film Top o' the Morning (1949). It had dropped so entirely out of the Irish lexicon that an Irish publication would look at the phrase and explain, "Hollywood invention, never used in Ireland." (Perhaps they should revise that to "not just used in Ireland.") Its resurgence is mainly due to Irish-American speakers rediscovering their heritage in an American Irish film stereotype based on an archaism once common throughout England, Scotland, and Ireland.
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From your exposition I could Imagine that top of the morning in the sense best part of it, whether that's the earliest or another time, would derive from a habbit that whoever got up first to the breakfast table would receive the top of the morning milk, as @Waggers alludes to. Hence it might have started as a greeting with a limited target group, then going over denoting the time (to rise for the top of the morning?) and from the combination of both or only the latter to the general greeting. – vectory Jan 13 '19 at 2:58
What is the solid, documented evidence, if any, that it was used (as a greeting, preferably) in Ireland herself before about 1790? Seems to me we have an Englishman and a Scott as the earliest users. This is "beyond Ireland" only in the sense of "outside of Ireland." – Arm the good guys in America Jan 14 '19 at 21:05
@vectory: You might want to check here before you start stringing German etymologies together: dwds.de – KarlG Jan 18 '19 at 2:19
@vectory: Haut, 'congealed top of mousse'. Seriously? Haut is cognate to (animal) hide, hauen to hew, schlagen to slay, Fr. haut = It. alto (high). But Zopf is top. Think topknot. Quark is allied to Cz-Sk tvaroch, and Quark means Topfen, not the other way round :) – KarlG Jan 18 '19 at 11:16
And Flocken are just flakes, which don't describe the chunks of chocolate people stick on a Zupfkuchen. – KarlG Jan 18 '19 at 11:39
First, he gets it right as a lot of people say "The top of the morning to you" but my Irish in-laws don't. It's an Irish expression and means "the best of the morning to you" and an appropriate reply is "And the rest of the day to you". NB wikipedia incorrectly calls it Irish-American. No, just plain Irish.
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My previous answer focused on what might be called the prehistory of "top of the morning"—the period between about 1650 and about 1700 when the expression was used descriptively rather than as a salutation.
This answer instead looks at published instances where "top of the morning" is used as a greeting or pleasantry. In particular, I want to look at instances where the expression is put in the mouths of Irish characters and instances where it is attributed to non-Irish characters.
The starting point for such usage remains George Walker, Theodore Cyphon: Or, The Benevolent Jew (1796)—meaning that a century of silence separates the last descriptive instance of "top of the morning" (John Partridge in 1693) from the first welcoming instance (George Walker in 1796).
'Top of the morning' as a salutation in non-Irish contexts
After the Theodore Cyphon instance of "the top of the morning to you" from 1796, the next two Google Books matches for the phrase used as a salutation are from the works of Walter Scott. These appear in books published in 1815 and 1818, as follows. From Guy Mannering (1815), spoken by a ship's captain named Dirk Hatternick:
The fellow's cloudy visage cleared up. "The top of the morning to you, sir; I find you are a visitor of my friend Mr Bertram—I beg pardon, but I took you for another sort of person."
Hatternick evidently understands Gypsy cant, but his name is vaguely Dutch and Scott describes him as having "somewhat of a foreign accent, though speaking perfectly good English." It is also noteworthy that he is mariner, as we shall see.
From Tales of My Landlord [The Heart of Mid-Lothian] (1818):
As our traveller set out early in the ensuing morning to prosecute her journey, and was in the act of leaving the inn-yard, Dick Ostler, who either had risen early or neglected to go to bed, either circumstance being equally incident to his calling, hollowed out after her, "The top of the morning to you, Moggie. Have a care o' Gunnerby Hill, young one. Robin Hood's dead and gwone, but there be takers yet in the vale of the bever."
As noted in TaliesinMerlin's answer, Dick Ostler is evidently a Yorkshireman—and a landlubber.
From "The Legend of the Stone House," serialized in The Ladies' Literary Cabinet (March 2, 1822):
At length exclaiming, "Shipmate, ho! the top of the morning to you," no answer was returned to this salutation, when he [Hobbs] continued, "where from my friend! what are you doing here?"
Hobbs is a sailor who has nothing Irish about him.
From Lee Gibbons, The Cavalier: A Romance, volume 2 (1822):
The dissimilarity between the manners of the Borderer, and the old courtier-like appearance of his dress, was so evident as to strike all beholders with admiration. On entering the room, he advanced to the ladies, and in his usual hasty manner cried out, "Ah! ah! Mistress Bradshaw! yer servant Madame! Miss Esther! guid mornin', the top of the mornin till ye.—Ye look like the queen o' the fairies, washit i' the dew of heaven."
The dialect portrayed here—as in much of Walter Scott's work—is evidently Scottish Border English.
From an anonymous author, Tales of an American Landlord; Containing Sketches of Life South of the Potomac, volume 1 (1824), speaking in the character of Dr. Clapperton, an American:
"The top of the morning to you, my Lord," said he; ' I saw you an hour gone by brushing away the dew. And so you have already encountered the keen wits of the mad poet of Hopewell? I have perceived you and him yard-arm and yard-arm for the last two glasses, and considered it high time to run down to your assistance. ..."
Dr. Clapperton is presented as a native-born American medical man.
From John Howell, "The Man-of-War's-Man," in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine (April 1826):
While the Court was assembling, I took a stroll round the decks, and had not gone far when I was accosted by Joe Green, one of the delegates of the ship, with a familiar slap on the shoulder, coupled with the usual salutation of,—'Aha, matey!—the top of the morning to you, my boy!—Hast any news?'
Here the entire dialogue is between sailors.
From "Nim South in Leicestershire" The Sporting Magazine (November 1830):
The top of the morning to you, Mr. Editor: here I am in the heart of Leicestershire. All the saddlers, livery-stable-keepers, innkeepers, lodging-house-keepers, and other keepers, are expecting to make a fortune by the emigration of that great fox-hound keeper Lord Southampton, from Quorndon Hall to this ancient and independent borough: ...
Nim South is an English sporting enthusiast, evidently with a particular interest in the hunt.
From "General Lee," a vignette set in Watertown, Massachusetts, in The Ladies' Garland (published in Harpers-Ferry, Virginia, October 15, 1835):
Gen. Lee—The top of the morning to you, good woman. Can you give a soldier a draught of milk?
The General Lee here is presumably Henry "Light-Horse Harry" Lee of Virginia, a hero of the American Revolution and the father of Robert E. Lee.
From Michael Scott, "Scenes in Jamaica," in Tom Cringle's Log, serialized in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine (October 1832):
"Good morning, Mr. Whiffle—the top of the morning to you, sir."
This line is spoken by the book's title character, Tom Cringle, a young Englishman in the British Navy.
From William Ainsworth, Rookwood: A Romance (1834):
"The top of the morning to you, gentlemen," said Turpin, (for so we must in future designate our friend, Jack Palmer) as he rode up, at an easy canter. "Did you not hear my halloo? I caught a glimpse of you on the hill yonder-I knew you both, two miles off; and so, having a word or two to say to you, Luke Bradley, before I leave this part of the country, I put Bess to it, and she soon brought me within hail. ..."
Turpin is Dick Turpin, the famous English highwayman.
"Well, my old lady!" said he [Kerslake, a lieutenant in the British Navy], "the top of the morning to you!"—the "old lady" curtseyed.—"This your daughter, old soul?"—trying to take the hand of the latter, as she retired in much confusion.
Again we have a British Navy connection.
The sun was up some hours, before Bradshaw left his room; when he did, it was noiselessly, so as not to disturb Selman. ...
"The top of the morning to you, Bradshaw," said Willoughby.
"The top is toppling down towards the meridian," said Cavendish. "But where’s Selman?"
Bradshaw is the titular lawyer of this novel.
These examples stretch from 1796 to 1835 (at which point I cut off my search for examples). A disproportionate number involve people who have worked aboard ships, but there is also significant representation of the Scottish-English Border and the United States. None of the characters in these examples show any sign of intentionally or accidentally slipping into Irish speech patterns in any other respect, which suggests that readers in the period from 1800 through 1835 did not assume that saying "the top of the morning to you" automatically marked the speaker as being Irish.
'Top of the morning' as a salutation in Irish or pseudo-Irish contexts
Recorded instances in which writers attribute the phrase "top of the morning" to Irish speakers begin fairly early (by 1809), but the wave of such attributed usage doesn’t become a tsunami until the period 1829–1835. In gathering this group of examples, I have tried to keep track of whether the author was Irish and whether the piece was published in Ireland.
The earliest match for "top of the morning" as a salutation between Irish characters dates to 1809, in "Irish Courtship," a comic song included in The Hibernian Cabinet; A Selection of All the Most Popular Irish Songs, Than Have Ben Lately Written (published in London, 1817). Here is how the opening of the song is presented in The Hiber
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