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This month Ben and Heather talk to toxicologist and forensic medicine specialist Professor Edward Ogden about substance abuse and family law. Professor Ogden has been studying the impact of drugs and alcohol for over 40 years. Professor Ogden shares his experience and knowledge on the impacts of drug and alcohol misuse and methods of testing. He and Heather McKinnon also discuss why drug and alcohol misuse if a concern in family law cases and how the Court deals with substance abuse claims. Forensic Medical Consultants Professor Edward Ogden is the principal consultant for this organisation which provides expert opinions and legal testimony in Australia, New Zealand and the Republic of Singapor. Benjamin Bryant: Welcome to episode 38 of our podcast. Are you ready to take it on? Heather McKinnon: You bet. He is also a principal consultant at Forensic Medical Consultants, providing expert evidence about alcohol and drug impairment to the courts in Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Welcome to our little podcast, Professor Ogden. Benjamin Bryant: And I want to dive right in. But just before we do that, I need to do my usual little reminder to our listeners to share this show with friends and family who may be starting down the path of separation or divorce. So please help your friends and family by sharing this fantastic resource. You have been providing expert opinions to the court on the impacts of drug and alcohol abuse for almost 30 years. How did you get involved in this type of work? Prof Edward Ogden: I wish it was only 30 years. Prof Edward Ogden: I got involved because right back at the beginning of my career, my mentor got me involved in forensic medicine. That is the application of clinical medicine to the law. And by its very nature, increasingly there have been cases which involve the impact of alcohol or other drugs. Then when I moved into police headquarters full time in the late eighties, I found myself giving evidence on behalf of the prosecution on the effects of alcohol and other drugs on driving. And so, I gradually developed some expertise in the field, I guess. Benjamin Bryant: You certainly did. And can you give us a general overview about what the science of toxicology actually is? Prof Edward Ogden: Well, it is surprisingly what it sounds like. Toxic as in poisonous. So, what do poisonous substances do to the human body? And the whole of toxicology, of course, includes toxic substances that cause death. I know Heather and I have our family law blinkers on. Prof Edward Ogden: Of course. And it involves famous cases of kings and queens being poisoned with various plants other toxic things like strychnine and heavy metals. Toxicology itself is a very broad field, but I limit myself to the things that people take deliberately. Benjamin Bryant: And there are a lot of illicit drugs out there. What are the most common substances that affect our community? And over the course of your 45 years, has there been any trends in any type of the drugs or use of drugs? And without question, it is the drug that causes the most concern. Then there have been changes over time, I guess. When I was a medical student good cannabis was 2. Now hydroponically grown, genetically selected material. So I guess cannabis would be number two. So I guess it used to be speed. Australia probably infamously, maybe the highest per capita user of methamphetamine in the world. Ecstasy MDMA , psilocybin magic mushrooms are pretty topical at the moment. Benjamin Bryant: And Professor, one of the things that interests me is that they have a lot of information out there and also how to evade drug testing, you know, try and do different things. They have no idea. They know, I guess, what is legal or what is not legal. I mean, there are. And I conjure up images of bathtubs and stuff again, probably from crime fiction movies or something like that. People cooking up things in all sorts of precarious places. And so, of course, that begs the question, Why do people do it? When I see a new patient, my first question to them is, why do you do this? What does it do for you? People use drugs because they get some personal benefit. And at its simplest, I had a man referred to me for his alcohol misuse disorder. Prof Edward Ogden: He had several stubbies before coming to the appointment. Benjamin Bryant: Certainly. And I think what you said, Edward, about what is the underlying problem or issue is a great segue to my question for Heather. Why is drug or alcohol abuse by a parent relevant in a family law context? Heather McKinnon: Well, I suppose even after 40 odd years in working in the field, my wish for every child in Australia is that they have a calm, emotionally-available parent. And the problem when you have someone coming off a bender is that if a child pushes a button, then all hell breaks loose. What does that mean in terms of their ability to respond to a child? But the nature of true addiction is that finding the next dose of whatever it is becomes the critical part of life. Heather McKinnon: And that bottom line. What is the emotional availability of the parent to the little one? Why did this adult get to that stage and is there a way of making the environment safer for the child? Benjamin Bryant: Heather, if a parent makes an allegation of drug or alcohol abuse, how does the court usually respond? A psychiatric assessment. And immediately he gets prescription medication, you see a change in his functioning. Can we help this parent to be a better parent? What would they have to do to improve their functioning? So I think diagnosis is the first step. It is not about punishment. And the court proceeds on that basis. Benjamin Bryant: Professor. So the court has now ordered drug testing. And first of all, are there any illicit drugs that cannot be tested for. Prof Edward Ogden: In general, most drugs can be tested for in some matrix. The question is where to look and how you look. If you want to know about impairment right now, then you need to test the levels of drug present at the time. So that would be alcohol in breath, alcohol in urine. For most other substances, other matrices are used. With perhaps the exception of cannabis, which is detectable for weeks. Hair grows at about a centimetre a month. Benjamin Bryant: Hmm. We had breathalysers at changeovers. And now it is more sophisticated with hair drug testing and carbohydrate deficiency transfer and testing, CDT testing, which is common certainly in this area. Benjamin Bryant: So I just wanted to ask a few questions about that. Professor, if I may. Can you explain to our listeners what a CD test actually is and what is it measuring? And it turns out that when people drink a lot of alcohol, there is less carbohydrate trapped. With that being a subjective statement. I heard you being very careful with your language and for good reason, Professor. Which brings me to the next question. What does it mean? What does excessive drinking mean? What are we looking for? If somebody is drinking ten or 12 standard drinks a day, then the CDT is likely to be abnormal. There was never a question about whether or not his alcohol consumption affected his ability to fly. But the Civil Aviation Administration required that his CDT return to normal so that his pattern of alcohol use showed safe activity all the time. Benjamin Bryant: Yes. I always wonder what my CDT test results would be, Professor. It was known back then that strychnine and lead could be extracted from hair if someone was being poisoned. So the knowledge that drugs get into incorporated hair is not new. What is new is the technology that allows the measurement of the extraordinarily small amounts of drugs that get incorporated into hair. So as I said, hair grows at about a centimetre a month. But typically, a little sample of hair is taken from the back of the head, usually about the diameter of a pencil. It just gives you an idea of the accuracy of this. The results are expressed in picograms per milligram of hair. So a milligram of hair is 1,th of a gram and a pic0gram is a million millionths of a gram. And whilst there are no Australian standards, the Society of Hair Testing, which is obviously a fairly exclusive little body, has in fact made recommendations about how to interpret a whole range of substances in hair samples. Testing can happen on any hair from the body. Pubic hair or leg hair. Prof Edward Ogden: I guess, you know, post mortem, you could certainly do that. Yes, certainly, we know a little less about the rate of growth of hair in the pubic area or the armpits or body hair, but it probably grows at about half the rate. They were totally depilated — everything. Not just their head, their whole of their body: their armpits, their pubes, their eyelashes, their eyebrows. There was not a hair to be found. Which one could draw an adverse inference from. Benjamin Bryant: I think everyone does. Prof Edward Ogden: Oh, absolutely. You might have more difficulty saying when the exposure occurred. And I think that brings me to my next question as well. I know from experience of using your expertise in some of my matters, Professor, I know that a drug test result you can get you can interpret more from it than just positive or negative. Prof Edward Ogden: Absolutely. First one is shaving or dying your head hair an effective way to avoid or contaminate hair drug testing? The question of changing hair colour is interesting. Some drugs actually stick better to melanin, the dark pigment in the hair. And so you may get higher levels of some drugs in someone who is dark skinned or dark haired compared to a natural blonde. There has been a significant amount of work done on: do hair treatments change drug levels? You might be able to change the levels, but not the presence. Is it possible to be around someone using illicit substances and for it to get into your system in a detectable quantity without actually consuming the drug itself? A common one is, of course, marijuana. Prof Edward Ogden: Obviously. And the simple answer is, yes, in the case of THC, you can get small quantities in urine for a very short time. The classic studies actually come out of the United States. Prof Edward Ogden: No. Well, that might be true too. But it means that cocaine for some reason sticks particularly well to American banknotes. And so that raises the question, certainly in the States, of whether you could get a positive drug test just by handling money or being around people. And there are some great studies. There was one where bank tellers were handling money. They were asked to handle the money for 4 hours without washing their hands. And they all had no detectable cocaine in any part of their body. Look, there are some tests of children who have grown up in houses which were meth labs. Is it possible for some prescription medications to be wrongfully interpreted as an illicit substance? And even the people who are taking dexamphetamine for the treatment of ADHD will not have methamphetamine. And if that were the case, then maybe there would be some questions of interpretation of levels. But methamphetamine is not available legally in Australia for any purpose. And this technology is really accurate. Benjamin Bryant: And two more quick questions that I want to ask before I let you go, Professor, Can steroids be tested for? Benjamin Bryant: And finally, can you drink lots of water to dilute a urine test to the point of no detection? Prof Edward Ogden: Yes, you can. But there is an Australian standard for the testing and interpretation of urine. And one of the things that happens when the urine sample is first obtained is, the operator who collects it will test its temperature, so that it appears to be the right temperature to have actually come from a human body and not from somewhere else or borrowed from someone else. And amongst the tests is the specific gravity and the concentration of various chemicals that are naturally present in urine. So if the specific gravity is 1. So you can look at a sample and say, this is exceptionally dilute. And there are ways of interpreting drug levels, taking that into account. So you take the dilution factor into account. In other words, if there was cannabis present, it was below the level of reporting. Benjamin Bryant: Wow. What a cracker of a show. Professor Ogden, thank you so much for helping us to understand the whole world of drug testing and providing evidence to the courts on the impacts of drug or alcohol use and abuse. Benjamin Bryant: It has been. And Heather, thank you, as always, for your insights into family law. Heather McKinnon: Yep. Next month we have our first return guest. Benjamin Bryant: If you have specific questions or stories relating to the difficulties of holidays after separation, please send them to familymatters bryantmckinnon. Goodbye for now and we hope to have your ears again next month. Use of this form does not create a solicitor-client relationship and information transmitted will not necessarily be treated as privileged or confidential. If you are a client, please get in touch with your usual firm contact directly for the most timely response. 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