Vaile buying blow

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Vaile buying blow

I hope not. This will solidify my plans to get to laurel this year. Hopefully someone tries some sort of anti-trust with vail. Buying 3 ski areas, then closing down two without a sale? If that happens, maybe the knob can get some cheap second hand equipment from those areas or at least an investor who would see the knob as a viable vail competitor. We would finally see everything the knob could be. I think it will hinge entirely on skier days, especially somewhere like HV. LM is obviously the low hanging fruit, I can't imagine it's break even let alone profitable and it has serious limitations for amenities and other activities, not to mention a DCNR guy who's hell bent on making his mark at the expense of those who pay for the place tax payers. Nutting never should have been permitted to get LM when Buncher expressed interest. But I digress. I sure hope not. I've envied all the retired skiers on this forum for years. This summer, I joined the ' I don't have to ski on weekends ' group. I was looking forward to some mid week, bluebird days at each of the 3 in the coming years. Looks like they will only be open Friday through Sunday until Christmas week, and the same beginning mid March. Confirmed with a buddy of mine that staff being onboarded for the winter at HV were told no Monday hours except for holidays. As for the long term, I too agree that in the foreseeable future LM and in time HV will become expendable from the Vail portfolio perspective. Not sure how some of these rumors get started, but these are the winter regular season hours of operation planned for the resorts mentioned in this thread:. Hidden Valley: Monday-Wednesday: 10 a. Otherwise, all of these resorts plan to be open 7 days a week during the regular season. I have heard absolutely no indication that Vail Resorts has any plans to shut down any of their Pennsylvania properties. Vail Resorts plans to announce its full capital investment plan in December, S cott - if you went on their websites, and went to the lift ticket purchase function, went to the calendar, it showed that HV was closed on Monday and LM was closed Monday - Thursday for the season, except Holidays.. So it may have started as a rumor but the rumor seemed to be confirmed by Vail's websites for HV and LM. After the firestorm this created, they changed the operating days on the lift ticket purchase function back to what they were last year. So this is Vail's fault, regardless if the calendars were in error or intentional. If you try to buy day tickets for Seven Springs, their website shows that that the resort is only open on weekends from Thanksgiving to Christmas week, and only open on weekends for the last two weeks of March. This would be a significant reduction in operating days from past years. The driving factor is the cost of staff or lack of staff. Many who worked in the industry are retired. The other way to interpret the lack of day tickets on other weekends is that they will decide later how many tickets to make available later. Meaning 7Springs will be open on weekends, but mainly for Epic pass holders. My other Sport retired has grown to a waitlist for competition. The sport has more expense with expendables. Action Shooting, 3-Gun That sport went well with winter ski racing. I love speed and competition. Also, check your large school systems many have off on Fridays and Mondays. My area. Snow sports is becoming more and more of a losing proposition dollar wise in the DMV. Akin to running a Gino's burger place back in the day in the Mid-Atlantic; too narrow-focused and no one wants it. Who can say? Liberty might just revert back to Ski Charnita? Have a little food truck near the golf course? Run it like an amusement park? It may be time to go back in history - maybe it all got too big and too corporate. The hours of operation at Seven Springs, Hidden Valley, and Laurel Mountain have not been reduced, rolled back, truncated, or otherwise shortened for this season. On their official website, online pass purchases did not accept midweek payments at Laurel and Hidden Valley on non-holiday Mondays, seemingly verifying my usually credible source. Within 2 days, all three websites posted operating hours the same as last season. I see closing adjusted to the metrics of use. Hidden Valley is still barely sort of half open. I wouldn't even call it that. On a holiday weekend they didn't really groom Saturday night into Sunday. On Sunday which was the busiest day of the weekend because of the weather one of the two triple lifts was non-functional all day. Lots of good slopes still aren't open. No terrain park to be found. As of Saturday I don't believe Gunnar lift was open. Not sure if anything changed Sunday. Rant over. I didn't believe the people who told me Vail would be worse than Nutting. But here we are. I believe the marginal temperatures for snow making is mainly to blame, not Vail. The triple lifts are almost 50 years old. They're going to breakdown. Not sure about the grooming. But they are making snow everywhere today. Let's see where we are at the end of this very cold week. The temperatures up there have been far less marginal than the resorts close to DC. Yes it is degrees warmer than Tline but only by a touch. The front side has almost no vertical and the North Face is likely a zoo. It is only when Gunnar and some of those trails are open that the place becomes fun and opens up. I honestly try to be patient. I don't just dislike Vail because it's easy to do. They have had plenty of snowmaking weather. Grooming on a holiday weekend should be a given. Keeping up with lifts, when you know they're 50 years old, should be a given. If you didn't want to invest in and run the resort, don't buy it. Around Christmas it was understandable that they were dealing with pretty tough weather. That doesn't hold water any more. Have you seen the executive board and management team at Vail? They are your typical, know nothing about the product they sell but get some successes under the belt then move onto another company with those successes even if they tank the company after they leave with the results of their decisions long term. Big stupid plastic smiles, posing with ski gear on they will never wear again in their life. Vail wanted nothing to do with the property around 7Springs for growth. Their entire goal is to sell as many passes as possible, set an operational expense budget for that specific resort for the year BEFORE the year starts, and let it go. Those that stay under budget while increasing revenue will capture bonuses and their big ugly plastic smiles will be on some internal win board memo. This is what every corporation does. Sometimes lowering operating costs results in decreased revenue, that's when they know they've bled the stone too much, time to dial it back. Oh revenue is still decreasing and insight is that the customers arent happy with the product? Well, give them some table scraps a bit at a time and see if they come back. While there are conversations happening about infrastructure upgrades, we are talking about deciding where those would be, how long they have at current state and getting those upgrades into the budget soon for maybe 5 years down the road? This is what people that were 'vailed' tried to warn us about. They treat it like a product. A bag of potato chips. Lower the quality, lower the quantity, increase the costs. Unfortunately yes They want to suck all the money out, leave a husk and pat themselves on the back with cash the whole while. The danger to their strategy is if they're hit with lackluster demand for a period of time recession etc they won't have anything else to fall back on such as real estate or golf. If they hit the skids and start to sell assets there aren't enough local operators to purchase these resorts anymore, they've all been acquired. It's interesting to me that ski resorts are consolidating yet there aren't any large monopolies sucking up golf courses. It's similar dynamics, but golf courses have remained independent whereas ski resorts haven't. Obviously capex requirements are very different, but they're both seasonal activities that require a lot of land. I see paper cuts all over the PA resorts; reduced hours, cut out Mondays, cut out weeknights, the cafe opens an hour later, closes an hour earlier. Everywhere a cut can be made. The fact Gunnar still isn't open after a solid week of extremely good snowmaking weather s almost funny at this point. By this weekend, they will have almost enough natural base to open. I simply don't get the strategy. Sadly I think Grumpy Dad, in his grumpy way, more or less has the strategy nailed. Increase revenue, decrease expenses. The only other thing I would add is that they see MA resorts like 7S and HV as a way to feed vacationers to the western resorts. You ain't going somewhere else when you've already been forced to buy epic. But that's just part and parcel of the increased revenue side of the equation. Yes, I would have to agree with the grumpy one as well. If Vail is sucessful with selling prepaid passes, then whats the point in going the extra mile to open terrain as fully or early as possible? With so may PA resorts under their control, not like they are threatened by what TLine or Wisp might be doing. At first I was excited to hear of the Vail purchase thinking that they would bring overdue investment and improvements to build the business, but now understand what it means to be Vailed. Has the tubing lodge been fixed at HV and are they tubing? It not, that'll be the second season now that they've done nothing to address it. The Highlands GM already said 7S is the cash cow. They don't want anything taking away from it - which is why HV and especially Laurel will see little investment - probably mostly repairs and incremental upgrades if something has to be replaced. That's why we'll never see the proposed expansion at HV that appears on some of the old maps. The GM said that those plans were made to make the resort more competitive with 7S. As that would take away from 7S, they have no plans to ever implement the expansion or probably any expansion. Thing is they're too dumb to see that investing in HV would allow them to have more people up in the area and are close enough to have shuttles. Even Laurel's close enough to do that. Ski 3 good resorts on one pass over a weekend without ever having to get in your car? And each one with different flavors and unique offerings? How can they NOT invest in it? Personally, I think 7S is overrated. There isn't that much difference between trails between Avalanche to Gunnar. Mainly length and some steepness variance. Straight down or the back and forth traverses. HV's and Laurel's runs at least feel different like you're not skiing the same thing every time. You covered a lot of ground there. But no, the tubing building at HV is not in use, and in fact, is essentially falling down. If an individual with no sway owned it like me! LM needs more and better snowmaking and could be the best of the three with terrain expansion, but I really doubt the State cough cough the Mellons will ever allow that, or Vail have any interest in spending money there. Join the conversation by logging in. Don't have an account? Create one here. All New Topic Search. Vail rolling back days. Jump to Newest Post. HVdad 11 months ago. It's likely only at the rumor stage, but word on the street is that Vail Resorts, Inc. Can't argue with accountants from a business perspective. No investments forthcoming. Happy skiing eveyone! Leo 11 months ago. Hidden Valley today. Laurel Seven Springs. I emailed Brett Cook a nasty gram last night. CBski 11 months ago edited 11 months ago. Need to look at 7S calendar. Also reducing hours Looks like they will only be open Friday through Sunday until Christmas week, and the same beginning mid March. CBski 11 months ago. So why the about face? Not good for pass sales maybe? Sorry to hear about this with Hidden Valley. Last year they reduced the hours at Whitetail during some weekdays. I hope independent buyers can step forward for whichever of their smaller resorts they close or dramatically cut back the hours of. Crush 11 months ago edited 11 months ago. Ruh Roh not good. I guess the ROI did not work out for these resorts. Sucks we had many a great time at HV. Problem is not many workers will want to enlist on a schdule like that so their will be labor problems. And what of the condo owners that rent? Maybe time to bail - I've been there done that so many times with the places we've lived. Everything has a beginning : middle : end. Scott - DCSki Editor 11 months ago edited 11 months ago. Not sure how some of these rumors get started, but these are the winter regular season hours of operation planned for the resorts mentioned in this thread: Hidden Valley: Monday-Wednesday: 10 a. Seven Springs: Monday-Friday: 9 a. Scott wrote: Not sure how some of these rumors get started, but these are the winter regular season hours of operation planned for the resorts mentioned in this thread: Hidden Valley: Monday-Wednesday: 10 a. Crush 11 months ago. MitchSH 11 months ago. I manage by metrics not feelings. Not easy but no one can stay open losing money. One way to see the future is where the capital improvements have taken place. Time will tell. MitchSH wrote: If you try to buy day tickets for Seven Springs, their website shows that that the resort is only open on weekends from Thanksgiving to Christmas week, and only open on weekends for the last two weeks of March. Weekends and holidays are the peak crush. Eric no pun. Historically pandemics caused fast change. Manage by metrics. IF vail is any good they know my profile. Liberty Roundtop Wt. Most likely this season back to normal. I do not eat at the resort. I am Mr cheap. Vail and IKON did invest 2 billion in the industry and raised pay for staff. Marketing starts in Sept. We are in mid-November. Fun to see the updates at least now coming. Leo 9 months ago. Bump to say, they might have kept hours largely the same, but they still suck. Leo wrote: Bump to say, they might have kept hours largely the same, but they still suck. Rustic 9 months ago. Laurel Mountain -- Lower Wildcat opened this weekend. Snowmaking in progress everywhere. The lift repairs and power system repairs are complete and they're back to regularly scheduled hours. Huzzah, winter is here! Night and day difference. Seven Springs seems to be calling it in, while Laurel is hitting on all cylinders. Laurel had guns going on Innsbruck as well as a few connector trails. There were enormous whales. Snow Bowl was open, the woods skiable, upper Dream skiable, Laurel Run open etc. Innsbruck will be open once it's groomed down. If we get a few more inches of natural snow this week Dream Highway will be open as well. Seven Springs had a bunch of closed terrain and no guns on. They don't even have Gunnar open yet, nothing blowing on that side. The contrast is crazy. Seven Springs has snow making coverage for the entire mountain and they're about half open. Laurel has snow making for about half of the mountain and they're almost entirely open. I've checked Hidden Valley a few times as well. They have snowmaking coverage for the entire mountain. Yet only Comet open on the North Summit?!?! With the number of fan guns they have on North Summit they could blanket the place in a day or less. I'm mystified on HV and 7S. Seems like bad management. LM is doing it right this year, and people have noticed. It's been a lot more crowded, which is a really good thing! Grumpy dad 9 months ago. Grumpy dad wrote: Have you seen the executive board and management team at Vail? Leo 9 months ago edited 9 months ago. Laurel Highlands 9 months ago. Leo wrote: Sadly I think Grumpy Dad, in his grumpy way, more or less has the strategy nailed. Laurel Highlands wrote: Yes, I would have to agree with the grumpy one as well. HV needs lift upgrades and terrain expansion. It could be an even better resort, easily. Speak truth to powder.

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Vaile buying blow

Forums Forum list Search forums. What's new New posts Latest activity. Members Registered members Current visitors. Log in Register. Search titles only. Search Advanced search…. Forum list. Search forums. Log in. Install the app. Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva. Be sure to join our community to participate women only, please! Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add \[email protected\] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed. JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. Can Vail Resorts Fail? Thread starter ski diva Start date Jan 22, Interesting article on this topic here. What do you think? I mean, we've seen big ski corporations come and go before I'm thinking about the American Ski Company , but of course, none was as big as Vail. And none has gone through as ambitious a spate of acquisitions as Vail has, either. Will Vail's fate be any different? I can't speculate, but pleasedontletvailbuysnowbasinandsunvalley. Yes, an interesting article The employee situation is actually something that a lot of mountains are facing On the east coast, a lot of mountains rely on part time staff for weekends. With cheap multi-mountain passes, if you are serious about skiing and especially if you already have a full time job , it doesn't make sense to work for a mountain and give up the little free skiing time you have, when you could just buy an Epic or Ikon pass. Certainly in places where Vail is looking to hire full time, seasonal employees, that are looking to live on what they make at the mountain I can see why the problem is exacerbated. Click to expand Christy Angel Diva. That's an interesting article! On one hand it's the story of a lot of companies these days. Shareholder profits are given primacy, bean counters replace experts in management, customers get screwed. Let's hope it works out better for Vail and their customers then it has for Boeing. As for the labor problem, I'm so tired of ski resorts complaining about this. I know it's a tight labor market, but if the cost of housing it's what is preventing people from working for you, then! Sun Valley, which already had quite a bit of employee housing, just built new facilities for employees. A good chunk of these are apartments for families. Some places are very geographically constrained and there just isn't the land. In that case, guess what, you're gonna have to pay people more so they can afford to live there. This has been a problem for so long and there is been so little action. Christy said:. Does the same board mostly Holding family that manages Sun Valley manage Snowbasin? I've never quite understood if the two resorts are managed exactly the same by the same people. Anyway, my understanding is that Carol Holding has it set up so that her family can't make any sales or do anything to SV until all of her grandkids are adults. I don't think we are that far away from that, unfortunately So, I believe the same board oversees it all, but each mountain has its own dedicated management team and is run independently. The general rumblings from the long-time Snowbasin skiers is that things really have gone downhill since Earl Holding died. Now, it's all about quantity. And the quality suffers as a result. You must log in or register to reply here. Latest posts. General Resort Discussions. Hockey players?! Ski Gear. Wachusett ''25 Latest: diymom Today at AM. General Skiing. What's your helmet? Do you love it? Latest: Magnatude Today at AM. Members online Sheena. Total: members: 2, guests:

Vaile buying blow