Russian Ambassador to South Africa Ilya Rogachev's interview with SABC News international editor Sophie Mokoena
More countries will be joining BRICS during the Summit in Russia next month. Russia's ambassador to South Africa says his country is ready to host the BRICS Summit and the issue of current global challenges will dominate that particular summit. SABC News international editor Sophie Mokoena spoke to Ambassador Ilya Rogachev.
Sophie Mokoena: Russia will be hosting the BRICS Summit. In terms of state of readiness, is Russia ready for this important gathering?
Ilya Rogachev: Well, yes, as far as I know, Kazan is the city that hosted a number of big-scale events, so the city of Kazan and other organizations that are providing different elements in the organization of summit, they are pretty well experienced in this matter, and we have all reasons to believe that it will be a success from this, organizational point of view.
Sophie Mokoena: What will be Russia's focus in relation to the summit? Maybe, the theme?
Ilya Rogachev: Well, the theme of the summit is “Strengthening multilateralism for just global development and security,” and there are several topics that usually attract international attention. But of course leaders will have a number of reports from all the different areas of BRICS cooperation, in particular, in the three pillar areas – policy and security, economy and finance, and cultural and humanitarian exchanges. All BRICS elements will report to the leaders, they will consider reports, take decisions.
But among those that I have mentioned that can be viewed, perhaps, as the most important - it's the expansion of BRICS. This is the first summit that BRICS will have in its expanded format already. Leaders at the summit in Johannesburg last year here also tasked delegations to work on the modalities of the further expansion, namely creating a new category of partner states, in particular. The modalities themselves, but also procedures, but also coordinating the list of potential candidates. And we will see how delegations have coped with this very delicate, very important matter.
Then, another area that usually attracts international attention is the finances. Of course, that will be very interesting and very important to know what are the directions in which BRICS works, while we more or less know that, but if there will be some intermediary results.
Sophie Mokoena: Are we likely to see more expansion?
Ilya Rogachev: Well, it's a very delicate issue, of course, because there are 30+ states that have made known their will to cooperate with BRICS in this or that way, from full membership to some kind of association. But one of the primary, if not the primary, task for our chairmanship this year was to ensure a smooth integration of the new members, because BRICS is already a very complicated mechanism. There are more than 200 meetings held during the year – basically, a meeting per working day. Most of those are supposed to have taken place already by the time of the summit, so the leaders can discuss the results, again. And it is not only politically important, like to show the political will to be a fully-fledged member of this entity, but it requires a tremendous administrative effort as well. And we wanted to ensure that seamless enter of the new members into the already working mechanisms [of BRICS].
We need to switch more to our national currencies, this is a consensual thesis. We need to de-dollarize our economic exchanges because there are so many economic sanctions imposed by the Western countries against BRICS members and other countries of the Global South and Global East. We can say that they have weaponized the dollar, they have weaponized Euro – these recognized world reserve currencies. So apparently BRICS members, the rest of the world, the ‘non-West’ is simply compelled to move away from these currencies in their exchanges.
Sophie Mokoena: Let's talk about… you also touched on the issue of security, the global security. The war in Ukraine. Is there even a slight possibility for peace talks, so that there's an end to that war? What are the, you know, issues that must be dealt with for both Ukraine and Russia to arrive at a situation where there can be positive discussions paving way for peace talks and finally cessation of hostilities?
Ilya Rogachev: Well, of course, there is this possibility and, first of all, I want to mention that Russia has never avoided negotiations, peace talks, with Ukrainian side. And we have proven that in the first days of the special military operation, in March 2022, when by the end of the month a kind of a treaty was almost ready, but then there was some kind of Western interference personified by the then prime minister of UK Boris Johnson who came to Kiev and said “no talks with the Russians, keep fighting, we will be with you till the very end.” And now I don't think there is a, you know, a viable proposal of peace negotiations on the table, but we've heard recently a few statement from some of the western leaders that “now it’s the time for negotiations.”
Sophie Mokoena: But there's announcement that, and statements that, and messages: Ukraine wants to use the missiles, long-range missiles. So how do you…
Ilya Rogachev: No, there are many contradictions in Ukrainian position, in particular, because quite some time ago there was also decree by President Zelensky which prohibits Ukrainian officials to negotiate with Russian officials. So negotiations at this time are Impossible by Ukrainian law.
Sophie Mokoena: But Ukraine is saying leave our territory, we will be able to negotiate. How do you respond to that?
Ilya Rogachev: This is not the starting point for negotiations. Yes, there is this question why it is now the time [for negotiations]? Why it wasn't the time a year ago, or a year and a half ago? It's interesting because… I'm curious to follow the logic behind these statements by the Western officials, by Western leaders. Is it that they were certain in previous two and a half years that Russia is weak, that Russia is incapable, that Russia will be dealt military defeat and so on? And now is the time when they have seen that it is not the case? And I think that it is clear to all military and even non-military experts that Ukraine is losing. So it's a complicated situation. And all the attempts, you know, to strengthen somehow negotiating positions by Ukraine and so on - to me are mostly irrelevant.
The issues that are supposed to be discussed and have not been on the table so far, except for our direct talks with Ukrainians in March 2022, are the core reasons, so to speak, of this conflict. It is the situation with the human rights of the Russian-speaking minority in Ukraine. It is whether our strategic security interests will be taken into consideration after all by the West, beginning with the very simple thing – NATO expansion - but with other issues as well, because the West has dismantled basically the disarmament system and arms control system. So when future negotiators on the other side will be ready to tackle these issues, I think then it will be time.
Sophie Mokoena: Let's look at Russia and Africa, particularly the Sahel region. Russia is expanding in terms of activities, but of concern is the issue of security, today we saw what happened in Mali. In terms of the role of Russia on the continent, how do you respond to your critics that it's not an honest intention it's all about the resources?
Ilya Rogachev: And who are the critics? If Russia cannot be trusted on the continent, as I've been told several times lately, who can? I mean we are only in those countries who have invited us. Those governments who are in need of certain results stemming from cooperation with Russia – they benefit from it. Those who do not need it – we are not there. So I think that in many areas, African leaders, states and peoples, actually, appreciate Russian participation in the life on the African continent. And we often play this stabilizing, balancing role in terms of security – military, counterterrorist security, but also food security and energy security.
Sophie Mokoena: The relationship with countries such as the United States of America. Is there possibility to improve the relationship? Because Russia is quite an important country, globally, the same with the Americans. And when you have this tension – smaller countries have no say, and they're watching, and there are talks of that world war, and all of that, which is something that's… I don't think it's possible. But the reality is the global peace is threatened when the big powers are engaged in a tense standoff.
Ilya Rogachev: Well the main feature of the current situation and this tension between Russia and the West - I think it is pretty understandable that it is caused by the desire for world dominance by the West, by the United States, by Anglo-Saxon world, in particular. They are not going to relinquish this influence that they have enjoyed for almost 500 years so easily. This is why this kind of desperation with which they are arming Ukraine trying to harm Russia, to inflict strategic defeat on Russia, and so on. These are their stated goals in Ukraine. I think that many people realize it now: that the whole situation in Ukraine was constructed, and it is not between Russians and Ukrainians, it is to be assessed from the geopolitical point of view. It is a struggle for the multi-polar world on our side, and it is the will to preserve the current unipolar world from the other. This is what is at stake in Ukraine, in particular.
Sophie Mokoena: How will you describe the relationship between South Africa and Russia? In terms of trade volumes as well, but also politically.
Ilya Rogachev: Well, politically, our relationship is based on the very solid foundation of bilateral treaties that were concluded in these 30 years after the first free election in South Africa. And according to these documents not only are we friends, but we're strategic partners. There is, in turn, foundation for this and reasons for this, because our countries share basically the same views on what kind of world we would like to see, to live in in the future, what are the shortcomings of the present world we live in now. And stemming from these big theses we can develop our bilateral relationship. You rightfully have mentioned the trade volume. I think it is historically so that our economic relationships do not correspond in fact to the level of political relations. But the potential is there, we can do much better we know that, Russia wants to be friends and partners with all African states. We want to develop, strengthen, and expand, and deepen our economic ties with all countries. Let's do business together that is mutually beneficial.