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I read that Dave Zabriskie is doing Leadville tomorrow. At first I thought, what I normally think, that Dave should just disappear into normal life and just leave cycling as a memory. He should be set in life, he did pretty well as a cyclist. But then I got to thinking about it and thought, shit, I like the guy and I like having him around. I slam Levi for winning Leadville, which I still majorly disapprove of, but sort of hope Dave wins, or at least has a good race. And I hardly know either of them personally. When I wrote a post the other day about Froome training with Levi, I got a lot of mixed responses. Where is all this anger coming from. Unlike some of the others, Levi seems to be doing everything right, since his admission. He donates his prize money. He doped in a sport, that was rife with dopers. You people act like he should be crucified. Give it a break. This saying makes a lot of sense. And all you people do is shit on him. Shame on all of you. There are a lot of very forgiving people out there. And each and everyone of us is different in this regard. This issue affected each and everyone of us in a different way. I do understand there is a huge spectum of different opinions, from whether to forgive and forget, punish until death, or somewhere in the middle. I guess my criteria is whether I think the person is generally remorseful of his actions and actually thinks they did something wrong. Dave meets this criteria. They are earned by talent and sportsmanship, both of which he lacks. And Levi is still beating up guys racing huge races, then gets kudos from you for donating his winnings?? When one of these guys, anyone of them, tells the truth, admits to everything they did, then they get forgiveness. Last year at a local race I trace, I toldat I am angry at him and that I wanted to bury the hatchet because I did not think it was fair to single him out. Either this man is delusional or stupider than he looks. I can forgive and forget. But not until there is a true feeling of remorse. No more lying. No bullshit about everyone else was doing it. I think Dave Zabriskie might say that. And for that, I wish him good luck tomorrow at Leadville. Emma Knickman, Dave Z. For must of us our level of forgiveness is directly proportionate to whether or not we like the guy or not. Levi has a history of not being liked or just generally being respected as a decent human being. His path to reasonable redemption is going to be different than the others just because of that. George seems to get a lot of anger directed his way because of a ton of success that he is experiencing in business ventures he really had very little to do with, i. Who knows, but for some he is more forgiveable because he is more likeable. Both have done races that they have had no intention on finishing or winning or had any personal responsibility for. I personally would feel the same way about them whether they were clean or not. This is my way of agreeing with you. As more an more information comes out about the doping era I think more and more people are beginning to accept that doping was just the way it was, but the level of forgiveness is related to whether or not we actually like the person. Kudos to you. Fair and balanced. When a person is convicted of a felony, they no longer get to vote. It is not a matter of forgiveness or popularity, its just a rule. To me it should be the same in cycling. Ban for life every time, the first time. In my mind these guys should never race again. It is their penance and responsibility for breaking the rules. To the point they got rich, I agree, apologies never mean much from a second home in Spain, but they can keep the home. Just leave the sport. The answer is no. Would they then be able to start a clothing line, open a hotel, sponsor a development squad? Not only that, their persistence contributes to the sense there is no integrity in the sport. How much of an advantage does Zabriskie have over his non-doping competition in Leadville due to his previous PED abuse? The problem, still, is not WADA code, but the sports administrators and promoters operating anti-doping in a consistent and more transparent way. We have the occasional promoter doing this. He tested and sanctioned accordingly. Promoters are not required to open cases. There are more parties that are part of the problem than just the athletes. DZ seems like a good human, he does seem to show remorse. He seems like a likable guy. In fact I think he is having a documentary about how he made breakfast this morning filmed as we speak. Levi continues bask in the limelight, and further aggrandize himself. I find him repugnant. A mosquito only knows how to be a mosquito, you just have use bug spray to keep them away and swat them if they bite you. And what about Jens Voight? How does he fit into this debate? Maybe it is a double standard, but it is hard not to make judgements based on riders public comments. Anyone who got screwed over by these pricks who can now forgive them is a bigger man than me. Give back the defrauded money. Forgiveness follows. No giveback. No sympathy. Otherwise we are all chimps. Steve, Until you tell us all about the elephant in the room Jim Ochowicz , anytime you attack a former doper or tell us your thoughts about doping in general, one word comes to mind. Ya well all this he said, she said shit is stupid. Tyler was known as the nicest guy in cycling until he got popped. It all turns on a dime. Floyd was a total nut job, but seems to have gained fandom by giving cycling the double middle finger. Any guy in spandex, especially if he has a gut, or is riding in the middle of the road is a huge douche and an embarresment to the general public. That will never change in the USA. Very wrong. Dave Z….. Nice guy? OK sure. Who cares what he does now? Is anyone writing blog posts about Rafael Palmero or Roger Clemens, or 10 billion other athletes in every sport imaginable. This is how it has worked for a long time and will continue to be forever or until they just legalize it all. Cheat at sports, get fame, fortune, pussy and CASH. In the end they steal from clean athletes, so very true. So why act surprised or so pissed off after the fact? Cheaters are rich and famous and clean athletes are chumps with a lot of anger. You think Merkx or Indurain or Hinault were clean? No way in hell! Pull your head out of your ass! People think he was clean because he spoke out against Lance. Shit man he was jealous. Nice guys get jealous too you know, just like they dope and lie. Shit man, heres how it works in pro sports. If you turn on your TV and see an athlete competing in a sport, chances are much, much greater that that person is on the dope, especially if it has anything to do with, speed, strength, or endurance. Tennis, swimming, running, cycling, baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, motocross, weightlifting….. Good guys cheat, and dope and lie. Not everyone likes everyone. So where have we gotten? I live in an awesome place where the weather and riding are perfect just about year round. I can fly off to anywhere and do whatever I want whenever I want. I have tons of Pro Tour buddies who also have come to grips with the situation and we train together all the time. Froomey is only one of hundreds. I have a hot wife too. You live in Kansas and drive around the country getting yourself fixed from crashing constantly, and telling us all for the th time that you won the first ever mountain bike nationals. Shit man, just let it go. WE ALL doped. Dave Z may be a great guy. He may have cried the first time the needle went in. But once he doped he lost the right to race a bicycle, forever, period. Levi, for real? No and no. You did. Some other idiots did too. Clean guys mostly went home or suffered while you were stealing their careers. Thanks for that. A Phil Gaimon fan is giving you the bird right now! Can you guess who? Yes, and what will your stories be like in 10 years? Or any anabolic steroid for that matter. I will lie in wait. On me? How about Pantani, the biggest doper ever? These guys and thousand more are celebrated heros. You can cry from your little perch in a dingy computer cave all you want, we made millions! Do you really think we care about you? No, and we never did, we were out for ourselves and it worked out just grand! There are no consequences. I love being rich and famous. Even a bunch of sponsors still give me free swag. Like I said we all have our crew of followers, for every upset reader here, there probably 10 in my corner saying atta boy, or I miss seeing you race. My stories in 10 or 20 years? Hmm lets see, Olympic glory, Winning the TOC three times, hanging with Arnold, being on the world stage and being adored by millions. Completing more grand tours than I can recall. The list goes on for me. What are yours Mr. Zero appropriate name? Ya right, me and every Pro cyclist that ever won anything. Phil Gaimon? Who the hell is that, another Bastons or whatever his name was? Ya but he has his pride. Look at George. Another Millionaire, smoking hot wife, beautiful family, hotels and other business ventures. Never has to work, can ride every day. You think any one of us have regrets? When you watch a movie with a big heist, who are you rooting for? The cops? You root for the guys who had big enough balls to try a huge rip off and you hope they get away with it. Good for you….. Dope works! I owe it everything! Yes, quite true. A federation unwilling to sanction every doper. Now, when do you start the kids? You get to do the injections. Give it to the kids. Am I right???? All stolen. All sports fraud. All of it. How does that feel? I have an ordinary life, lived with integrity. You and your compatriots however, will always be associated with cheating and fraud as long as history remembers. Thanks for destroying the integrity of the sport. EPO in particular, my limited understanding is the question of long term benefits to carrying more oxygen is leaning towards not meaningful. However, what doping does do, is permit very rapid recovery. Now imagine those benefits over 90 or days or a year. Those are permanent benefits. See if that leads to your doorstep? Thanks Levi or whoever you are for letting us into the mindset of the cheaters. There is no integrity in the sport, so what kind of foolish idiot would try to take part in it with integrity? Who did I steal from? Mad at what? You bad mouth me and then say hey Dave Z. I hope you win Leadville. Fucking hypocrite! You even admit as much. JV too, Frankie as well. There are thousands of examples. Doping is the normal way in cycling. If we got rid of every doper and ex doper in the sport there would be nothing left…. The Lance years were awesome. Great stuff! Now you wanna watch an hour and a half of Andrew Talansky off the back, crying? Ya that was good TV. Did you ever go over the speed limit? Ever look a hot young chick and have a little day dream about her? Are her tits fake? No, its your experience, just like all of mine are mine. Ever smoke a little weed as a kid? How bout you Tilly? Blaze a spleef now and again? When you were little did you ever try to sneak around doing it? Well we crawl around on the floor hiding behind couches with our wives or girlfriends when the vampires are at the door. Theres more association by the author of this blog with dopers than just about anyone else in the US. Och, Cadel, George etc. Trudi is a sognieur for BMC….. Now he comes out and says I hope Dave Z wins Leadville. You followers must feel some kind of confused and conflicted. Its funny that you think you can make criminals feel bad about themselves using words like honor, or character, or doing the right thing. Gimme a break. My friends and family still love me, they get it. They understand the way of the world. Maybe you can find it in your heart to visualize the choices I had to make in life and be happy for me as well. But I doubt it. Is that what you think I wrote. Reread it and then restate your question. Alas this post continues on one of the primary topics of the day in cycling. This topic takes a close second to race results in the frequency of media and blog reporting. I think it is fair to say many cycling fans are tired of the topic, but it just does not seem to go away, nor will it. And why… Because it is such an emotional subject to so many people. Just read all the name calling in the responses here, heavy hitting. I think and read about it a lot. And so here are my random thoughts on the topic of the era. I understand why folks choose to dope, because it works and they want the success that it brings. In society in general people lie, cheat and steal all of the time to achieve things. Not everyone, but many people do, myself included. I consider myself a fairly honest guy, but often fiscal motivations will tempt me to the dark side. The problem is that once you have cheated for a gain, you have to live with it. I have some long held guilt for all kinds of silly little misdemeanors. I have empathy for the deep guilt that is no doubt in the minds of many current and former pro cyclists. I do not envy their position, as guilt is an ever present downer and really really hard to escape from. Give me poverty and obscurity, and a loving family, friends and good honest reputation any day. I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy. A prevailing theme with you…pussy. Is that an after effect of the T or what? No seriously, I am curious about this oft touted residual from doping. Not a trace, not a single bit. A lot of smart psychopaths end up as millionaires or billionaires — in fact most of them end up as raging successes in life, if you count success in possessions, money, and power. Dumb ones get caught out early, smart ones get the fame and fortune. And the smart ones will end up running the game, if people let them do it. And get away from organizations which cater to them or are controlled by them. Levi…If this is truly you here on this site….. That is the most cynical diatribe I have read in a long long time. Peace Out. DZ finished 36th more than an hour behind Todd Wells. So much for the lingering benefits of EPO in his system. The body reverts to homeostasis. Always, there is no exception to this. You can tamper with it for the SHORT term, but at the end of the day any exogenous chemicals like PEDs will negatively alter the functioning of the body. EPO and oxygen vector drugs can harm the metabolism. Endocrine disrupting drugs like anabolic steroids have much more complicated side effects ie sexual disfunction, injury from overuse, etc. If you develop a greater muscle density, it will disappear as you have no way of supporting it. You can have a hematocrit of 50 for a time, but for too long you can end up like too many cyclists, soccer players, etc. Hate towards ex-dopers is ridiculous. I would feel very sorry for them and the fact they unknowingly put their health on the line for a salary. There is a real human tragedy for these folks. Jealousy is a terrible thing…. That would be better than the staff at the lowest rungs of the latter, ie the athletes and mechanics. Everyone does it. When do you do your first injection on a teenager? When do they learn to do the injections themselves? Blood bags. When do those start? I can only control my own actions and words. Imagine if all we had to argue about was what you did on a bike? Lance, you personally, I wish you the best. Be clean and sober, raise the kids so they can enter the world as adults and maybe help end some suffering on the planet in any little way. None of it. You made years of choices to steal and commit fraud and now you have to deal with some minor consequences. You can do something meaningful in sports administration reform. I cannot. This goes back too many years, but members gave up their ability to direct the federation a long time ago. Then non-cheats and non-psychopaths stop supporting the federation. Take your money and walk away. James-I think you might be wrong somewhat. Here is a piece from a study in Norway-. According to a study conducted by the University of Oslo and published in the Journal of Physiology, even brief exposure to anabolic steroids can create lasting effects in muscle fibers. The untreated mice grew insignificantly. If these results prove true in humans there are so many questions related to steroid use that will need to be addresses or reexamined. For one, what will the Anti Doping Agency make of these results? Everyone was NOT doing transfusions. Dave Z never did transfusions. VDV was left off the Tour team because he did not do transfusions. Dave Z was pushed into doping. Levi never had to be pushed, he was already doping long before he went to Europe, long before he met Johan. By teams wanted nothing to do with organized doping. Levi pressured Johan for months to start a team administered doping program, said he would not do it unless the team was involved. Johan finally caved before the Tour. Johan had to pressure Dave Z to dope, while Levi pressured Johan to dope. Dear Steve, Thanks for the article, I was able to read the whole thing via my college library website. The article you shared was neat. These two facts make it seem to me at least a bit irrelevant. Furthermore, no one makes the claim that increased myonucleic density is advantageous in endurance sports, although I imagine it would be. Increasing the cross-sectional area of muscle fibers, ie putting on mass, I think most people would say is not advantageous at all in endurance sports, a detriment in fact. Finally, human beings are much much more diverse physiologically than bred Norway rats. There is a very wide spectrum of muscle density, nucleic density, etc. In short, even if there were any great long lasting effects, which does not seem to me to be the case for cyclists, the athlete would still be at the lower end of normal for all the values mentioned in the study. Frankly, the Samoan american football linebacker at the local highschool would be at the greater end of normal, and knock all of us cyclists out of the park in that regard. Physiological findings like these are notoriously difficult to make conclusions from. Especially from rodents, who do not experience much decreasing bone density with age, for example, like us humans. In the absence of any reliable conclusions re endurance sports the rest are pretty solid , I would suggest we try to be inclusive and appreciative to our fellow man. No doubt i am at the back of the queue offering to lend the postage needed to return the Olympic Medal? ACT pic. Remember when you stopped on Passo Tonale on the rest day for Lunch? When the Aussies walked into meet Alberto , you made yourself scarce! NOW , i guess they would be pleased that they did not relate a story about meeting you? As to those that you have named here , what part of your relevations have not been trotted out elsewhere? Never paid a cent to ride with the likes of you , but always willing to have a free lunch. What most accurately describes what doping can really do for you is what Malcolm Gladwell talks about in Outliers and Canadian hockey players and their birthdays. The jist is the majority of players have jan, feb, mar b days and almost non have dec b days. It goes back to pee wee hockey age cut offs and when basically a child has almost another year of development they are mistakenly seen as more talented. They get put on better teams, with better coaches, more ice time, more practice. And soon the small advantage of age has turned into true greater talent. I think this relates very well to cycling and doping. An athlete uses drugs to perform slightly better and gets picked up by bigger teams, more money, more training camps, better races, more care, until far enough down the line they are genuinely stronger and faster. But the only reason they were afforded these luxuries was because of cheating. This is perhaps the difference between Levi and dave, Levi used drugs to get into the party, dave was good enough and only offered once inside. Pushed into doping? Yeah, right. He would have done anything to continue racing. That is the bottom line. After he went to CSC he did not stop doping. He doped even more so he could challenge and even beat Armstrong at time trials. The Armstrong case gave dopers like Dave the chance to blame someone else instead of taking responsibility for their own decisions. They would have doped no matter what European team they went to. Just to complete the picture, USAC itself can never die. Part of it is funded annually by the USOC. It has to be a concerted effort. The promoter needs to know racers will show up and the racers have to show up! A big mother f-ing beeotch. Lance and his drug use in his teens and getting his nuts cut off and his skull sliced open. And me? I just roll over and go back to sleep. He is merely an internet troll just trying to get people agitated. Ignore the troll and he will go away after his meth hit wears off. Are you friggen kidding me? Thanks for making this so easy by making my point! You guys are a laugh a minute! I took some EPO and got some race results. You on the other hand have worked hard with your lawyering skills to get psychopaths off so they can go back out into society and commit more crimes. How many murdered after you got them off? How dare you compare the two!!!! Mine did a good job for me in fact! It is only in the minority of 11 of the 50 states that felon voting rights have the potential of being barred permanently. In fact in the states of Maine and Vermont, convicted felons are entitled to vote while still in prison! Most states 39 states allow felons to vote after they serve their sentences and some have the additional requirement that they pay off their fines first. My speculation is that a highly refined microdosing program made the difference once things were toned down.

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