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Naming or linking to RC vendor sites in any context, for any reason, will get you banned. If you see someone else doing this, please use the report button under the post. Drugnerds is a community for informed discussion about drug chemistry and pharmacology. Moderators will not hesitate to ban those who have not read the rules. No warnings are given - if you do not have the initiative to read the rules before posting, you may not post here. Please report unsuitable posts. In short, this subreddit is NOT for questions where you need an answer from experts, but for people who have done some good research and want a good discussion about the issue in question. Strictly no medical advice questions. We now support subscript Syntax: I have just been putting it off. I will try to not get into that in this post, and keep this mostly about supplementation. As seems to be the norm with me, this may be long winded. Obviously everything I put on this list is not necessary. I will be placing supplements into different categories, with reasonings and references. I will let you decide which ones will be a part of your regimen. Dosage and time schedule: Drink some in the morning, an hour before drop, and some later in the night. Normal dosages should be. This should do for now. All of the antioxidant and magnesium supplementation will also apply to amphetamine use. You will not need the grapefruit juice or 5-HTP. Also, there are other substances that will help protect specifically against dopamine toxicity. I was told that when I am having anxiety from too much caffeine to drink grapefruit juice Guess it slows metabolism of stims or something? Most of this is about oxidative damage caused by free radicals produced in the process of breaking down dopamine. Since most amphetamines release dopamine adderall more than MDMA pretty much all of this could apply to that as well. I think the difference is that MDMA releases serotonin, then oxidized dopamine takes over and goes into the serotonin holes. The second part is the actual nuerotoxic part. That is an unproven theory, one which I doubt the validity of. MDMA is not neurotoxic when injected directly in the brain, even when dopamine levels rise and serotonin is depleted. However, antioxidants will protect against any hydroxyl dopamine metabolites as well. It can cause serotonin syndrome. Happened to me once. Ascorbic acid is much less bio-available than vitamin C derived from fruits. Either get your Vitamin C from real fruit or a natural supplement. Supplementation should still be used as a precaution, just because there is a decent chance the MDMA is not high-quality, and most individuals do not use MDMA in moderation. The neurotoxic effects of MDMA are overhyped on reddit and the scientific community at large, and the neurotoxicity is much more open to debate than people are willing to talk about from a scientific standpoint. That is also correct. However, bringing a little packet of Emergen-C into a club is much easier than a bottle of fresh squeezed orange juice. This is where I start to disagree. There is much evidence of cognitive deficits with even single uses of MDMA. I know the mechanisms, and how to prevent it. Why would you not heed that advice and protect yourself as much as you can? Not only that, but it makes your roll better, and you have a 2 week long afterglow. It enhances every part of the experience. Again, I totally disagree. I have made a bunch of comments and posts now about MDMA. The amount of misinformation that I see is astounding. If I can get people realizing the real risks behind what they do, then that is a good thing. I simply want them to realize the risks of taking it. Read through these links I posted the other day: My favorite book on the topic is Ecstasy the complete guide which was given to me for free at a MAPS fundraiser. I still think that much of research conducted on MDMA is biased, to some degree. What would the results be of some of these studies if they were conducted comparing individuals in different economic classes, or races, or by job? While the work they are doing is admirable, there exists an unfortunate tendency at MAPS gatherings to dismiss all evidence of MDMA-induced neurotoxicity with anecdotal accounts of conflicts of interest, or by uttering the incantation 'Ecstacy is not MDMA'. The editor of the book you mentioned is an MD, and completely lacks the statistical chops required to meaningfully cash out claims of publication bias. The other contributors did not exactly fill me with hope either, but I got my hands on a pirated PDF of the book anyway. It contained a decent lit review, but zero meta-analysis. No power analysis or regression modelling. Publication bias is never even mentioned. The body of literature surrounding MDMA-induced neurotoxicity is large enough that a systemic publication bias could not only be detected, but quantified to a certain degree. It seems the accusations of publication bias they throw around are anecdotal, unsubstantiated and used to further their antiestablishment narrative. Oh my, I wish I had this 10yrs ago when I was a very active participant with mdma. I overused and depleted till I was wrung out and can now use no more. I assume that you 'lost the magic? Did taking MDMA no longer result in any effects? Just speedy effects and then pissed off a lot. I gave up after the 4 or 5th try. Mind you this was after 3 solid years of hitting it pretty hard. Maybe I can give it go again in a few years. Did you lose the 'fucked up' feelings? Meaning the light sensitivity, body buzz, urinary retention, jaw clenching, etc. Tried some piracetam and had horrible headaches every time. That usually means that you are deficient in choline. Would someone be so kind as to generate a so called grocery list for fellow rollers who would like to protect themselves but dont exactly know where to get the essential supplements listed here? Here you go, I have done a post based on this post and there there are links to recommended products after each item I have different ones in each pocket. I am overly cautious, though. Before and after will always be better than nothing. Would mixing the supplements needed throughout the night in say a bottle of grapefruit juice be effective? Or would they somehow interact negatively with each other in solution? Maybe this could reduce some of the complexity. Thanks so much, per usual incredibly helpful. Just out of curiosity, what other drugs do you do and with what frequency? Dextroamphetamine every so often. Kratom every week or two. Marijuana on occasion with friends. Lots of different nootropics. I take Xanax sometimes, usually just for long hour plane rides. NOS a few times, but not regularly. I am going to be trying psilocybin for the first time soon. I am looking forward to it! And I am a craft beer guy, as well as home-brewer, so I drink a lot of beer. I had saved your old post so I could get the supplements I needed before New Years. I was just checking back on it now and coincidentally you updated just in time! Thanks for doing all of this research. Obviously I should have bought them sooner so I could test them out but alas I did not. I decided against it. I have a sensitive digestive track and would rather not risk spending the night in the bathroom. I understand your concern, but I would highly suggest it. Excitotoxicity leads to tolerance and things like jaw clenching. If bad enough, it can also cause neuronal death. Magnesium glycinate never causes GI tract irritation. Thanks again for the advice. I used to think magnesium itself was the problem, but the way the diarrheagenic properties of Mg supplements seem to inversely scale with bioavailability suggests an etiology of increased osmotic pressure in the lower GI caused by unabsorbed Mg. The glycinate should be fine; it is unlikely to make it to your bowels where it can pull excess water into your stool. It seems to make sense to me, I had a perfect roll last night and I made sure all my friends took the supplements too. Thanks for keeping us safe out there you guys! As someone who always suffered bruxism, I recently tried some magnesium and my eyes were opened. I had complete control over my jaw, no clenching, grinding, anything. Definitely worth the price to avoid the sore jaw. Assuming a supplement pill contains mg magnesium glycinate, does that mean the serving size is one? But what does the 2,mg mean, then? Magnesium glycinate is chelated to a glycine molecule. Only mg of the 2,mg pill is elemental magnesium. This means that to get the RDI of magnesium of mg, you need to have two doses of mag glycinate. That would be 4,mg total weight in pills. If you see a supplement that has a higher elemental magnesium ratio, then you know it is not fully chelated. So in my case, my brand has each dose as two pills. This means that I am taking 6 mag pills that day. Each pill is 1,mg total weight, and mg magnesium. This will be 6 grams of pill total, but mg total magnesium. Not to mention with personal experiences as well. Normally, I take raveaid and co q10 before really happy that they now added that to the supplement as well , and tums right before. I had virtually no bad comedown effects and today, I felt better than I ever have on the morning after. Legitimately, it made a pretty significant difference. Also, I rolled alot harder than usual, def not a bad thing. But yeah, this is long and possibly a bit pointless, just wanted you to know that your time and information is appreciated and definitely made a difference in my overall roll experience. Remember to keep taking antioxidants for a few days. Keeps my mood lifted and I definitely sleep better: This person is mistaken. Only a small portion of your EGCG dose will pass your blood brain barrier. However, blood levels of EGCG will be much higher, and will inhibit enzymes in the periphery. This suggests that a very high plasma concentration is needed for EGCG to reach a reasonable therapeutic level in brain. A study more relevant for human exposure to epicatechins followed six subjects scheduled for lumbar puncture after the ingestion of a mL boiling water infusion of 7 g of green Kenyan tea After 1 h, plasma levels of the epicatechins were readily detectable with total epicatechin concentrations amounting to about 1. How much you need this is going to depend on the dose you took. Some people need it or they are depressed for a week. Fish oil is always good. I always eat a nice sushi dinner the night of my roll. Thank you so much. My husband and I followed this for our roll and it greatly enhanced our evening. I have some magnesium hydroxide lying about. Will this do me any good or do I need something more bioavailable? I try and space my supplements out the few hours before the roll, ending about 1 hour ahead of time. That way your body can absorb them efficiently. Drink grapefruit juice the night before, and all day before your roll. Then I start drinking it again about an hour into my roll. The ones you take during your roll are going to be dependent on when you remember, and when is a good time, given your location. And as assliquorr said, even single doses of MDMA can cause measurable damage. If you have the knowledge to prevent it, I would suggest it. Also, be careful with such a bioavailable magnesium supplement. These dosages can be diarrheagenic in certain individuals. At the initial examination, there were no statistically significant differences in any of the neuropsychological test scores between persistent Ecstasy-naive subjects and future Ecstasy users. Like I expected however what I expect is irrelevant here. Now, they found a significant decrease in verbal memory, within 3 years after the initial study. This does in no way support anything about a single dose of MDMA resulting in significant cognitive damage see below. Quite the opposite actually according to the first phase of the study. My guess is that a lot of these subjects did not space out their uses, did not test them and did not take a sensible dose. Please note that I am not saying that MDMA is not neurotoxic and I definitely think you should pre- and post-load I do it myself as well but I think that the cognitive impairment is highly overstated even in this article IF you stick to the usage pattern I mentioned in my first comment. The first survey seems to have been done before any of the subjects tried ecstasy. All that the quote you have selected shows is that the control group and the future ecstasy users did not show any significant differences in intelligence in the initial survey. Our findings suggest that even a first low cumulative dose of Ecstasy is associated with decline in verbal memory. Had a quick read through it. Unfortunately, it seems to have a lot of potential confounding factors, such as higher levels of cannabis, amphetamine and cocaine use in the ecstasy-using group. I know that they say that they have accounted for that, but there must be a large element of guesswork involved. Most of the forms of magnesium I mentioned will not upset your GI tract. Citrate may, and I have heard anecdotes of taurate as well. Glycinate never upsets my stomach, even at high doses. I really like glycinate. In order for the grapefruit juice to effectively inhibit CYP3A4, it must be consumed quite heavily in order to do so. That is why I say throughout the day, before, and during. Also, the grape seed extract has some CYP3A4 inhibition. I also take quercetin as well. I tried a little experiment with some black pepper. I took 20 or so whole black pepper kernels with my kratom to see how well the CYP3A4 inhibition worked. I also took my grapefruit juice like I normally do. Holy hell did it work! It made the kratom way more effective. My pupils were pinholes. Thoughts on extended release mg Vitamin C instead of those packs? Also, what type of ALA is mine likely to be if the label does not specific? If not, the extended release C will be fine. Just make sure you watch your electrolyte intake with your water. It potentiates it, but kills the empathy for me. It increases all aspects of the roll for me, very much including the empathy. Anecdotally, so far Noopept has had very similar potentiation and seemingly-neuroprotective effects for me as well. I always have racetams oxiracetam, piracetam, noopept after my roll. The racetams seem to make me irritable at times, and the same holds true while on MDMA. There has also not been conclusive evidence that it happens in vivo enough to be detrimental. I am unaware of cimetidine inhibiting CYP3A4. Also, it has other effects that could cause contraindications. After doing some reading, cimetidine may work. However, it also inhibits CYP2D6. This is definitely going to increase serum levels, so dosage should be lowered. However, if it dies inhibit both well, it would work even better, because it would also prevent N-methylated metabolites as well. That drink actually looks pretty good. I would also recommend adding some more magnesium. The mag citrate in your drink is only about mg. Instead of Tums, I use a teaspoon of baking soda to achieve the same effect. I currently take it 15 minutes before dropping. I was putting it on, but it was late and I could not find enough sources to be thorough. I use it along with my magnesium. NMDA receptor antagonists are the best way. Memantine and DXM have both been shown to slow or reverse tolerance. You can also take piracetam with your MDMA to bring back the magic. Are you asking me? I have an amazing 6 hour roll if I re-dose at 1. I get an awesome nights sleep; probably 6 hours or so. Then I wake up feeling like a million dollars. Everything I eat the next day tastes absolutely delicious, and a good craft beer makes my pupils dilate like crazy. I then have a 2 week long afterglow. There is no comedown, and no adverse side effects. Another person took my supplementation on NYE after reading my post. He wrote me a couple days later saying that he rolled harder than he ever has and had no comedown. He was very excited that it worked. Try it and see. Oh my goodness, wow. But now I love to read about both the science and the personal experiences, and this whole post and thread have been very informative and interesting to me. Hey man, thank you for this post. Really great info man. Which supplements did you take? The specifics are key, sometimes. I may have gone a bit overboard, but below is my entire dosing schedule. MDMA was powdered of unknown quality but had been tried previously at higher dosages with excellent effect. Overall it was a smooth mellow roll. Felt a slight peak from initial dose and also from the redose. A chill set and setting had a part in this. Had restless sleep and vivid dreams. In the morning like I said, I felt pretty normal. Ohh man, you really did all I suggested. It will be good to have someone else on the same regimen as I am to qualitatively test this, apart from myself and my friends. One thing I am a little skeptical about is the quercetin. It also is a CYP3A4 inhibitor, so it looked like a good fit. However, looking back on my rolls since I started that, the euphoria has all been remarkably mellow. The other effects are strong, but the euphoria seems to be down. I think that may be causing an interaction. I recently discovered that it has reversible MAO-A inhibitory properties. Not certain at this point, but I am going to drop it from the regimen and see if that changes anything. As far as dose is concerned, I would frontload more. I usually take between mg as a first dose, with a smaller re-dose. The re-dose is not so much to have another peak, but to extend the one you get from the first dose. As far as restful sleep is concerned, that never seems to be a problem for me. I usually smoke some THC at the end, then take some melatonin. If I had any amphetamine, I also take. GHB might work too. Also, you should start drinking the grapefruit juice the day before in small amounts, then throughout the day. Trying to drink a ton just before the roll upsets your stomach and fills you up. To reduce complexity, I have everything set out ahead of time in a labeled pill container. I mark each compartment with the time before drop, so I just take all the supplements each compartment at the correct time. You also do not have to take everything during. Before and after drop should work just fine. I do it to be overly cautious. So my plan for next time is to drop the quercetin from the regimen. I will take mg initial MDMA dose, followed by a mg re-dose at 1. I will also make sure that any racetams are cleared from my system before I drop, to avoid any change in roll that they cause. Haha yeah I did. I was excited at the possibility of being able to do mdma again so I figured it was worth a try after of course doing all my homework with these supplements. Let me know what your experience is without it if you can. Will probably go mg with mg redose, removing quercetin and adding either melatonin or GHB at the end after isolated testing. Thanks again man, this has been a fun journey so far! If you are taking grapefruit juice the day before and leading up to the drop, you should not need any more CYP3A4 inhibition. Dropping the quercetin should not hurt at all. No, I have not rolled since before Christmas. My next experience is going to be 6-APB. I have some ready for testing, when the time is right. Have you had any more MDMA experiences? Did your friends feel the same way about the quercetin? Perhaps the racetams were the culprit It was either the racetams or the quercetin. Quercetin is not used by many people, but neither are racetams. That is why I left quercetin off my supplement list, until I know for sure. All the other antioxidants are going to protect your friends anyway. If you want to test it out, just limit the quercetin doses to yourself. The experiment will have to wait until next month. The quercetin amounts are too low to make a meaningful difference like a dedicated supplement. I just wanted to say thank you for this information. I will report back to you guys tomorrow with what we took, what times, dosage, experience, etc. Start drinking grapefruit juice now. If you try and drink enough all at once, it will upset your stomach. How does this supplementation schedule affect the frequency with which MDMA may be taken safely? Generally people recommend about months in between rolls. Do you think that this is still the appropriate time to wait even when taking the supplements you recommend? Yes, the month rule still applies. Down-regulation will occur no matter what, so you need time off to let them up-regulate again. Hey there, thank you for the information, I appreciate your hard work. Do the Essential Supplements you mentioned influence the trip in any way? Do I feel something different more enhanced or less? Or is it 'just' for safety reasons to lower the risk of potential danger? You will have less teeth clenching and it will last a little longer. The grapefruit juice will potentiate the roll some. I found out about this supplement: Do you guys think it would be enough with some of these?. Mental performance Iron, zinc and iodine contribute to normal cognitive function plus pantothenic acid which contributes to normal mental performance. Nervous system Vitamin B6, niacin vit. B3 and vitamin C contribute to the normal functioning of the nervous system. Psychological functions Vitamins B12, B6, thiamin vit. B1 , folic acid, vitamin C and magnesium contribute to normal psychological function. Ideal levels of Vitamin D3 The tablet formula now provides an ideal 25mcg IU vitamin D3 in the preferred, more active cholecalciferol form, as synthesised by the skin. Most of the amounts in that supplement are too low to be effective. The vitamin levels are ok, but you can get good multivitamins cheaper. Does the sheer volume of supplement pills pose a problem when taking them 'during', considering the lack of appetite from MDMA and the capsule size of some of these supplements especially magnesium? Has that ever been an issue for you, or do you have workarounds, such as crushing the less disgusting supplements into a fine powder and mixing them with water? Also, how do you present the concept of supplementing to people who might be skeptical about it? Who would be skeptical about it? I just explain what each supplement is for and why we should take it. Just tell them exactly what they are for, then let them decide if they want to take them or not. If they refuse, and see you perfectly fine the next day while they fell like shit, then next time they might listen. Alright, I managed to get everyone to participate last night, which will give me lots of data points next time I hear from them. Due to the potentiation of the roll, some people had worse jaw clenching than normal, even impeding speech at times. Would adding more magnesium do the trick, or is it a matter of spreading it out more to get more efficient absorption? What was the dosage you used for the magnesium, and at what time? Also, are you sure that your MDMA did not have any amphetamine in it? Most have little or no jaw clenching on MDMA, and they experienced nothing out of the ordinary other than, you know, an epic roll. Two people had moderate jaw clenching on new years eve and felt that it was definitely more pronounced this time around. The latter also got quite nauseous around the 4 hour mark and this persisted throughout the night; he got up about 10 times to throw up, even though his stomach was empty. He was sweating heavily when we got up at noon, and remained nauseous until he got home in the afternoon. He got sick on new years eve as well, but it ended after throwing up once. It is probably worth mentioning that he had a fever 2 days before. Next time, I will either lower his initial dose or get him to redose less. None of us smoke cigarettes. Ohh, the tobacco could have exacerbated it. The MAOIs in the tobacco could have caused your already potentiated roll to be even stronger. The jaw clenching is less of a serotonin thing and more of a glutamate thing. Usually pure MDMA does not cause much bruxism. I usually take amphetamine with my MDMA, so the magnesium almost completely eliminates the bruxism for me. I still get crazy eye wiggles, but my teeth and cheeks are safe. Can you tell me exactly what supplements you dosed, at what time, and what dose? I was trying to find your message you sent before, but I get too many. A couple questions please! But first, thank you TONS for all of this information! I want to do it as 'smart' as i can so i can avoid as much of the comedown effects as possible. I have stash boxer briefs but would need some kind of holder and would need to be able to differentiate between the pills! How much in advance can one safely avoid Serotonin syndrome or anything else start pre-loading the combo? Your second roll will suck, and you will feel like death for weeks. Bring another class of drug to take the second day. Just remember what each one looks like. I never have any issues bringing pills in. Just have the person carrying the illegal ones separate from the legal ones. If they find you, then all you have is vitamins. It ruins the roll most of the time due to down-regulation of the 5-HT receptors. R-ALA is very unstable, and needs to be bound to sodium to be useful. Apart from sensible use well spaced apart, which is obvious! Certain substances have short half lives. Alpha lipoic acid is one of them. That needs to be taken close to the drop, and throughout the night. The others are not as finicky. The only other thing you need to consider is stomach acidity. You want your stomach to have less acidity during your roll, or the MDMA will not absorb as well. Then you can increase it after your roll is over. This will help you pee out the MDMA before it can metabolize into harmful substances. Yeah, that would work. To increase acidity, I bring emergen-c packets and mix them with water. It gives you vitamin c and is acidic. You could drink orange or grapefruit juice too. This is an extremely informative post, much appreciated! DLPA being the step before L-tyrosine. L-glutamine is an amino acid used in protein synthesis. If you are only taking 5-HTP for a week or less, then you should be fine. If you take it longer, add some DLPA in. It certainly sounds like a fun few meals! Actually on this point, what would you recommend diet-wise in the week leading up - lots of fish? Natural sources are always good. The grapefruit juice definitely increases the roll. However, mg is perfectly fine. Yes, you can get ALA from natural sources. However, like magnesium, your plasma levels will not be anywhere near the same as supplementation. A healthy diet is always a good idea, though. Thanks for the prompt reply. Finally, I also was wondering, in relation to stomach acidity levels: How much tums are you taking and how may the roll be affected if this was not present, assuming ingestion of grapefruit and vit C supplements? I take Tums about 30min before my first dose. This will make the roll hit much faster and harder. Then I keep drinking acidic drinks throughout the night, which will help excrete the MDMA in your urine before metabolizing. As in the chewy tums? My girlfriend has often felt quite sick a few hours into a roll, stomach sickness, mild nausea and occasionally vomiting. Is there any particular reason for this and any way to stop it occurring? Yes, normal chewable Tums. They will help with the stomach upset too. You can also use ginger to sooth a stomach upset. I like to have a sushi dinner with a bunch of ginger before I roll. Really interested to see if this Green Tea Extract will finally let me urinate! This, above all, has truly been the creeping bane of my previous rolls. I was also wondering if these supplements will also decrease the neurotoxicity of MDA or should I just bin whatever I have left? Might the first be a misprint, or an interpretation error on my part? They have the figure backwards!! This is why rats show higher toxicity than humans. Our results are in contrast with a study by Carmo et al. This difference might indicate that cell-specific properties play an additional role in the cytotoxicity of MDMA or its metabolites. This fits right into my theory. The methylated metabolites are much more hepatotoxic, but do not cross the blood brain barrier. The N-demethylated metabolites are much more neurotoxic. These results, which are consistent with those of Escobedo et al. Taken together, these observations and those of others Steele et al. This is the first report showing a direct relationship between core body temperature and MDMA metabolism. This finding has implications on both the temperature dependence of the mechanism of MDMA neurotoxicity and human use, as hyperthermia is often associated with MDMA use in humans. As shown in Fig. Under these experimental conditions, hyperthermia was abolished Fig. In contrast, raising ambient temperature exacerbated both the acute hyperthermic effect and long-term loss of 5-HT and 5- HIAA content in different rat brain regions. I want to prevent all metabolism. They are not crucial to ridding MDMA from the body. MDMA is excreted unchanged in the urine. You can increase this excretion by increasing urinary acidity. I do this with grapefruit juice and emergen-C packets. However, CYP1A2 is a secondary pathway. Both are inhibited by grapefruit juice. Sure, it plays a role. However, there is not reason to alter the dosage of your supplements. Calculating the differences would be too complicated. When it comes to MDA, obviously we should exercise the same caution as with MDMA actually, probably more , but what about supplementing grapefruit juice? Would that essentially kill the roll almost entirely? Thanks for your time! It would do nothing. You could try taking a CYP2D6 inhibitor. Since you are already taking MDA, there would be no risk. You might have to lower your dosage, though. I ask due to the potential for serotonin syndrome. Do they hold the same effectiveness as with Prozac? The only one that has been proven is Prozac. I have tried kanna sceletium tortuosum after a roll, and it seemed to work as well. So it not only blocks the SERT, but also prevents the toxic metabolites from being created. I saw some research papers hinting that it might add to neurotoxicity though, because glutathione and mdma might interact in a bad way. Think they found the metabolite in rats as well. It sounds strange though, and glutathione is in the brain anyway However, they are found in the liver, and cause damage there. HHA itself is not toxic until it gets conjugated with glutathione. The studies you linked have been refuted my more recent studies that showed only the metabolites of MDA are found in the brain after normal dosing. Will it increase the conjugated HHA then, or will it do more good than harm? It has the possibility of increasing the toxic metabolites, but it also has the possibility of negating them. I do not think it is a necessary supplement unless you are taking another substance that is super hard on the liver. So for now, I would leave it out. I only take it for nights when I am drinking a lot, since it drastically reduces liver damage from alcohol. Take a look at this study, though. Jury is still out for me. So the question is really more, should I stop taking it. Some people get mild depression due to the serotonin stores being depleted. If you are taking reasonable doses you should be fine without them. Thanks so much for all of the information here and in other threads. This information really needs to spread by everyone. I thought that any damage was minimal and reversible if it was only used very occasionally. Yeah, a good SJW supplement up-regulates serotonin receptors. You can also take bacopa to up-regulate tryptophan hydroxylase. I plan to use both of these: If you find yourself getting tired, then drop it down to 1 pill a day till your body adjusts. It might be beneficial to add Natrol brand green tea extract into the mix. I would assume other companies would also not want suitable amounts of either too because of the drug interactions. The Natrol brand GTE contains mg of polyphenols. Perhaps another supplement would be even more effective. If you drink a lot the night before, the CYP3A4 inhibition lasts up to 7 days. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. DrugNerds comments other discussions 4. Log in or sign up in seconds. Submit a new link. Submit a new text post. DrugNerds subscribe unsubscribe 53, readers 90 users here now Naming or linking to RC vendor sites in any context, for any reason, will get you banned. Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and subscribe to one of thousands of communities. Alpha Lipoic Acid - This is one that everyone should be taking. It is a powerful antioxidant that scavenges reactive oxygen and nitrogen species. It also has a nice benefit of regenerating other vitamins, like C, after redox cycling. R-ALA is the biologically active isomer that we are looking for. Most supplements are racemic, or a mix of both. R-ALA by itself is very unstable, and is not suitable for supplementation. This is where bonding it to sodium comes into play. Na-R-ALA- mg before and every 2 hours of roll. Bioavailable magnesium supplement - MDMA induces a release of extracellular glutamate in the hippocampus. It binds to NMDA receptor sites, along with glycine, opening the ion channels and allowing calcium to enter the neuron. This is how the brain sends cascading electrical signals. When the ion channels open for too long or too frequently, calcium concentrations can become too high in the neuron. This can lower the effectiveness of your ion channels, or can even cause neuronal death. Magnesium is the substance your body uses to block the channel in a voltage-dependent manner. Most people are deficient in magnesium as it is. Supplementing a highly bioavailable magnesium supplement will give your body the substance it needs to naturally protect itself from excitotoxicity. Here is a picture I made to illustrate. There are a number of different types of magnesium supplements. Some are not absorbed very well, other are. The most common form, oxide, is one of the worst. This is where the concept of chelation comes into play. Magnesium is a substance the readily binds to insoluble salts in the stomach and intestines. This makes it hard to absorb. This means that fully chelated magnesium is absorbed much better by the body. My favorite is magnesium glycinate. This is Mg chelated to a glycine molecule. It can be found cheaply and is highly bioavailable. There is also citrate, L-theonate, oroate, taurate, lysinate, etc. I will let you decide on which one you want to try. Magnesium Glycinate- 2,mg mg elemental Mg 6 hours before, 1 hour before, and during. Vitamin C - This is a widely known antioxidant. It will help scavenge any reactive oxygen species that get created. It has been shown to prevent MDMA induced hepatotoxicity. It has also been shown to mitigate neurotoxicity as well. This gives me C, plus electrolytes and a number of other substances. It will also raise stomach acidity, which will slow absorption of MDMA through the stomach and intestines. I also drink it throughout the night, raising my urinary acidity. This allows me to excrete much of the MDMA in my urine before it metabolizes to harmful substances. Also, flavonoids are potent antioxidants that will help protect against lipid oxidation and reactive oxygen species. I am not going to rehash the specifics here, but there is no doubt that any MDA in your system is bad for you. The furanocoumarins present in grapefruit juice are potent CYP3A4 inhibitors. This study measured metabolism to MDA in humans. How much of your MDMA dose gets metabolized to MDA depends on a number of different factors, like dose, re-dosing schedule, body temperature, etc. Drinking grapefruit juice will drastically inhibit this metabolism. This will help excrete MDMA in urine unmetabolized. Acetyl-L-carnitine - Is synergistic with alpha lipoic acid, and protects against oxidative stress. Has been shown to prevent MDMA induced neurotoxicity. It will help with the urinary retention arising from MDMA induced vasopressin release. It is created from tryptophan in your diet using the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase TPH. This will make it harder for your body to produce the necessary 5-HT from normal dietary sources alone. This means that when you supplement 5-HTP, you want to make sure it gets converted to 5-HT in your brain and not your periphery. It is found in your stomach and periphery, as well as your brain. This means that we have to inhibit it, so that your 5-HTP has time to pass your blood brain barrier. Excess 5-HT in the periphery can cause heart valve damage. It is also a very powerful antioxidant. After using MDMA, your serotonin levels will be low, and your melatonin levels will be affected. Taking a melatonin supplement before bed will help you sleep, but will also help scavenge any oxidative substances your other antioxidants have missed. To do this, they need andenosine triphosphate ATP. This will protect your neurons from exitotoxicity. Want to add to the discussion? I thought that this was going to be about using MDMA as a supplement. Natural-based Vitamin C is far superior to ascorbic acid. Supplementation is good practice, but not necessary if using high-quality MDMA in moderation. Yep, burned out those serotonin receptors. FWIW, just the piracetam attack dose seemed to be enough to bring the magic back for me. I had not seen that study. The difference it makes is substantial. Thanks for the excellent guide! This suggests that a very high plasma concentration is needed for EGCG to reach a reasonable therapeutic level in brain http: And then their conclusion is that Our findings suggest that even a first low cumulative dose of Ecstasy is associated with decline in verbal memory. Do they have any other interactions? When sweating, you lose them quickly. Addition of GHB at comedown - considering a low dose of pure powdered GHB at end of roll to help smooth away the anxiety. Plan to wait at least a month to try anything again. Your mg dose info is awesome and makes sense compared to mine. Grapefruit juice contains quercetin, yet it has no MAO-A inhibition? The post is too old for anyone to see. Ginger works very well for stomach upsets. Fresh ginger is always best. Thanks for all the information. Finally, are there any natural sources of alpha-lipoic acid? That stuff is expensive!! Will post back again regarding the effects, thanks. Thanks for this great public service your doing! Other than that, load up on antioxidants and keep your body temperature down. If you are seeing results, keep using it. NOW usually makes good stuff.

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