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The Coffee House Wall Write ruthlessly what you believe to be the truth, or else shut up!
Ostrich (occasionally) June 27th, 2017 - 14:00
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“The madness of hack Peter Hitchens”
A.Boot.
This is becoming a bit of an obsession with AB. I was somewhat disappointed that he didn’t apply some of his devastating sarcastic wit to address Corbyn’s messiah speech.
I wonder how many people actually read Mr. Hitchens’ column, and of those I wonder how many people actually agree with him? Not many, in both cases, I guess.
In the age of the internet the influence of the Dead Tree Media is DEAD! It has Zero, null, nula, нуль, cero, zilch (or even sero if you are Welsh!) ability to control the narrative.
The influences of the often malign fake news output BBC, CH4, SKY, CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and, yes, even FOX is another matter altogether.
CNN is dying, with some of the others feeling very, very poorly. Alternate YouTube channels and websites like Infowars and Rebel Media regularly get more viewers than some broadcast news channels, with Infowars getting more viewers than many of them put together! (excluding BBC & FOX)
This is why I expect that the internet will either be shut down, or severely regulated to in order to squeeze out the opposition to state broadcasters.
Timely of you, EC, to link to this piece of yet another repeat of the same stale vomit, the barbarian reckons the relationship between the West and Russia may begin to move even further south in the months ahead.
Things are never black and white, the more complex an issue the greater the probability of many different shades of it, but to argue that it’s Russia who’s the culprit really does take the biscuit. If anyone is in need of psychiatric MOT is the omni-all one.
On the internet: it’s one or the other, Baron reckons, those who’ve been in control of the news either get used to sharing the former monopoly, or the authorities will clamp down on the free access to the new medium. If the past is any indication of the future it’s definitely the latter. Let’s enjoy it whilst we can, no?
Marshal Roberts June 27th, 2017 – 07:40
The ritual involved in state execution is disgusting and demeans all those participating in it, by whatever means and however conducted.
There have been cases of wrongful conviction and execution.
Regardless of conditions it is the deprivation of freedom that is the real punishment of imprisonment. And the length of incarceration takes into account the magnitude of the crime – or should!
Imprisonment prevents dangerous criminals from being a danger to the public. The cost benefit case is hard to quantify but not all dangerous criminals are murderers and murder itself has many elements to it.
I’m not sure that the deterrent effect of capital punishment has ever been established. There may be an argument for it but it is difficult to quantify. There was an increase in the number of homicides (and all crime) from the 1960s (the death penalty was abolished in 1965) but that trend was broadly in line with the increase in population. There was a downward trend from the 1990s when the population was still increasing and whilst the number of homicides have recently been increasing again the context is 574 homicides in 2015 vs 1,074 in 2003.
This wonderful rant is apparently from a couple of years ago: somehow I missed it. Just in case others here also missed it, it is worth your time.
A powerful compendium of the toxic components of stupidity, treasonous conspircay and ultimately suicidal/homicidal policies of Western leaders.
And the prescience of Steyn’s trajectory of events, which has unfolded almost exactly as augured.
It goes back a long way: even longer than you think:
Germany and Islam
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/06/germany_and_islam.html
I concur and you summary in the first paragraph is the main reason.
Over the years as murder has become more casual and varied and at time perverted and evil I have wobbled at times. But the sense and sentiment of that opening declaration has always cooled me down.
However, in war, what then? Summary execution without trial, whether hand to hand on the battlefield or from a distance of aircraft and ships, becomes necessary; the humanity and decencies have to abandoned for the sake of personal and national survival and victory.
The problem now is that we are war with Islam without declaration of our own leaders,, as so aptly delineated by Steyn in the above link. How do you and I justify your first paragraph in these circumstances? There’s my dilemma.
Good piece on the shape our war with Islamists will take. http://bit.ly/2sSMfXV
Good news for soldiers who will much less likely to get shot by snipers or blown up but not so good for kids going to pop concerts.
Though the photograph that accompanies this piece by Melanie unnerves me somewhat, given her departure from the Speccy and Brillo’s cowardly role in it (some hatchets should never be buried imho) the essay is better than her somewhat truncated appearance on This Week:
“How do you and I justify your first paragraph in these circumstances?”
Probably by killing the enemy in cold blood and without ritual as the SAS did with the IRA cell in Gibraltar and at Loughgall.
There is a dichotemy in attempting to treat terrorists engaged in “military” action as criminals and prioritising their arrest over killing. There seems to be no compunction in ordering drone attacks against known terrorist targets overseas and I don’t see why homegrown terrorists should be treated any differently.
Identify them and if they are engaged in action or in planning murder with firearms, explosives or other weapons, ambush them and kill them, regardless of whether they are armed at the time or not. But it needs a military rather than police response. Personally I would put all counter-terrorist intelligence and operations in the hands of the military with police in support rather than in charge and with a clear declaration of intent that as soon as it is embarked upon to any degree whatsoever the terrorist activity is considered an act of war.
The terrorists and their supporters will bleat because they want an uneven playing field. They want to be protected by the law after they have committed to waging war against its rule. It’s the sort of nonsense that in conventional combat would require enemy soldiers to be “arrested” rather than killed.
POWs are only valid currency if the enemy plays by the same rules.
Terrorists don’t.
(some hatchets should never be buried imho)
Unless between the antagonist’s shoulder blades?
The response to the Brighton Grand Hotel bombing, Oct 12, 1984 was weak beyond belief!
This time I concur without reservation. However your solution is unlikely to be implemented by the West’s govermental idiocy/venally corruptive/treasonous/myopic policies – all enabled by an electorate that has, in the main, been undereducated and brainwashed over many decades: that seems devoid of the instinct of self preservation and the essential underpinning of self respect that is the bedrock of civilisation.
It is at this stage of introspection that I always resort to the now apocryphal imprecation of Sir Richard Mottram, which should now be entered in the annals of essential truths of our times.
I was hoping you would pick up on that cue.
But I wouldn’t want our Mel to get herself hoisted by the current Stasi, even if I’m convinced that she would be acquitted on the grounds of efence of the Realm. But only if the jury was stuffed the
…stuffed with patriots – a vain hope in our current zeitgeist, I fear.
Apols for o & oe. My ipad is playing tricks today. Moreover it’s pissing with rain here, which is good for the Dolly Varden (much need in fact), but injurious to my general mood and mojo.
WTF! I just read that as “…stuffed with parrots.”
I’ve got an appointment booked at Specsavers tomorrow.
Come to think of it, “parrots” might not be too far wide of the mark!

Il faut cultiver notre Dolly Varden.
So 95 buildings tested and 95 failed.
A 100% failure rate.
That’s pretty impressive for a country claiming to have such high standards.
And of course there’s the reality at the coal face.
As expected.
Hospitals and schools are being tested to make sure they are not encased in combustible cladding, and Mr Javid said 15 buildings “across the wider government estate” require further investigation.
Mr Javid admitted on Monday that multiple fire safety inspection failures had been discovered in tower blocks which were evacuated last week in Camden, north London, including hundreds of missing fire doors, inaccessible stairways and breaches of internal walls.
Sounds like the third world have brought their third world habits here with them . Surely not.
Doctors, teachers, and surgeons would never do that would they.
And there was me thinking you were no fan of Francois Marie Arouet. Must have been your trip to Gay Paris and your experience on that double-decker, 97 horsepower (retired) London bus cum mobile bordello wot dun it. Your Candide account of that still burns bright in my memory sump.
OK, Colonel, you have to other choice but going for one of the following two, you either swing tomorrow, or you spend the rest of your natural life to suffer ‘the deprivation of freedom that is the real punishment of imprisonment’ (you may even forget the high and getting stronger probability that at some point in the future when the public forgets about the one you’ve murdered you get to walk free). The privileges of contemporary murderers will be on offer to you, however, the ‘uman rites’ package guarantees them to everyone including the most heinous murderers.
Nobody says every murderer has to hang, just the ones committing the most sickening murder where the guilt is proven beyond any doubt at all, such as a man who raped a six year old girl, videoed it for himself, then killed the child. For someone like that hanging’s too merciless, but if the same were to happen to someone very close to you you would of course forgive. Tipping the hat to you isn’t enough.
Btw, since we abolished capital punishment in the 60s, over 150 murderers who got released having served their laughable tariff murdered again by 2008. That really furnishes the justification for your ‘disgusting and demeaning state execution, doesn’t it?
A couple of smallish points first, Frank, on this ten minute collage of the great Mark, the birth rate trend can reverse, it isn’t fixed, as it sank, ti can also get a boost, the village pubs in English villages have been gradually shutting thanks to other factors e.g. ban on smoking, and perhaps it won’t be such a bad idea to supplement the warring gene in the Prussian tribe with a dose of Islamic machoism, he, he, he.
The one big point to everyone from listening to it must be bleeding obvious, it’s in our hands to reverse the trend, (of which feminisation plays a big part, we can de-feminise), we can regain our self confidence, kick the Sontag’s quip and its siblings into the long grass, stop buying oil from the land of the Arabs, deprive them of funds ….
Events have happened that changed the course of history, events will happen that …..
But it has always been largely bullshite, Robert, it’s the initial ‘breaking news’ hit that carries it with the public though, it’s that they remember from the front pages, the first item of TV news, the bleating of the political clowns. When the truth emerges it gets buried on the last page at best, but mostly ignored.
Does the poorly educated Slav smell a whiff of double standard, Colonel?
Baron has always favoured due process, and the treatment of enemy combatants when taken prisoner to conform to the Geneva Convention.
Killing any human being in cold blood is morally totally non-justifiable (and that leaves aside the legal side of things). If everyone were to subscribe to it, carry it out, we would move quickly from law abiding societies into barbarism.
But explain please, Colonel, how come you feel squeamish (or more) for someone executing a murderer found guilty in a court case, but you feel comfortable for someone killing in cold blood an individual who has never ever had a chance to defend himself in the court of law?
If you want to acquaint yourself more closely with the man who many say will be our next PM, spend your next five minutes listening to this:
OK, your turn (and the usual apology for you know what).
We fall on the same side of the debate on these issues Baron.
Deprivation of liberty does not equate to deprivation of life, the protection of the public and the protection of the weak and the good from the evil who prey on them.
I could go on for ever, but let me just raise 2 considerations.
Retribution and closure for the relatives.
If during my constabulary career, I had displayed such ignorance and incompetence in public, I would have been subject to complaint from the public and censure by the Commissioner and as a result would probably have been sacked,
Why are people like the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, or come that, the Shadow Home Secretary, simarly exposed, so imperilled?
Their salaries and perks are provided by the taxpayers. A little summary justice might provide an incentive for them to get their act together. As it is, they sail on regardless while we are forced to stump up. In yer face piss-takers extraordinaire!
I’m afraid that argument is flawed, Baron.
Sentencing to imprisonment and release – and whether that serves justice and/or protects the public – is a separate issue to capital punishment. The absence of capital punishment has no bearing on it, unless you are arguing for capital punishment as a universal fail safe, e.g. top the bastard just in case someone releases him too soon and he murders again.
As for the rest it is arguing on an emotional response to personal involvement. Of course I would be distraught and angry were someone close to me be murdered. But in addition to the fact that I was commenting in abstract the rule of law is supposed to be dispassionate and not subjective. Certainly the epidemic of blubbering mawkishness currently afflicting the nation is having an influence on that. Is revenge justice? That seems to be your argument. And it doesn’t negate my feeling of disgust at the ritual of state execution.
Now let me ask you a question. Would you approve of a Judge ordering a defendant who had maliciously punched someone in the mouth to be held so that the victim could punch the defendant in the mouth? Or that a rapist be held so that he could be arse-raped by a paid volunteer? Or to apply a law that a perpetrator of gbh, be similarly subjected to gbh by the victim or a paid proxy? (The biblical eye for an eye principal).
As for closure … there never can be for the families of murdered victims.
L
It’s a poncey social justice word, coined for the age of Dianafication.
Another question – would you volunteer to be the hangman – talking of ‘cold blood’?
I don’t know what you smell a whiff of Baron, given that I have no means to control your interpretation of my comments.
Again your argument is flawed. “Taken prisoner” sounds so neat and easy. Have you ever participated in a military ambush? Should the heavily armed enemy combatants on their way to do your comrades or innocent victims harm be called upon to surrender, almost certainly resulting in a firefight more potentially dangerous to your own side, or killed as quickly as their unsuspecting vulnerability allows? That is a very different situation to where an enemy combatant surrenders, throws down his weapon and becomes harmless. The one may lead to the other. But it would be foolish to predicate battle on always attempting to “arrest” for “due process” the armed men trying to kill you.
You seem to have completely missed my point about the due process of law in regard to criminals and the treatment of terrorists engaged in what can be considered acts of war. There is no double standard because they are totally different issues. Soldiers kill in hot blood and in cold blood but if you are arguing that is “morally unjustifiable” then you are arguing against war. And that flies in the face of your views on the treatment of evil men.
The armed IRA men on the way to Loughgall with the digger full of explosive would not have hesitated to kill as many police as they could. Would they have taken them prisoner? Unlikely. Yet their various comrades raised a great protest that they had been killed outright and not given the opportunity to surrender for your “due process”. Were the people taken at night by the IRA given “due process” before being shot dead and dumped? Would you expect “due process” from the ISIS clones?
Squeamish? No, the emotion I expressed was one of disgust for the ritual of execution by the justice apparatus of the state. That is not the same as the prosecution of war where enemy combatants – and terrorists – take their chance.
But to take your approach, which is no doubt the conflated norm, terrorists as criminals deserving of “due process”, is probably why we are losing the domestic theatre of war.
Marshal Roberts June 27th, 2017 – 21:49
Sounds a bit like sharia. And I agree with Frank with regard to that impostor word “closure”. There is no such thing except in the imagination of wishful thinking and the deification of victimhood.
:…I would put all counter-terrorist intelligence and operations in the hands of the military with police in support rather than in charge and with a clear declaration of intent that as soon as it is embarked upon to any degree whatsoever the terrorist activity is considered an act of war…”
The difficulty with the approach you outline is that we will in effect be declaring a state of war within the UK on a potentially far more numerous and widespread foe than the IRA. Our weak and divided legislature and executive would be concerned that having handed responsibility for the prosecution to islamic terrorism to the military and subordinating the civil power accordingly, Parliamentary sovereignty and government as we currently recognise it will cease and we will move inexorably to the semi-permanent state of conflict which we see in Israel, Lebanon and across the Middle East.
Our traditional liberties and freedom will be at best subordinated
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