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S1: This ad free podcast is part of your slate plus membership.
S2: So you have your your own 16 year old daughter now and you’re wanting to talk to her about her sexuality, but you’re not exactly sure how can you explain why?
S3: Well, you know, I mean, some of that, I think is like that general male acculturation we have that it’s the mom’s place.
S4: So like if they’re going to have a conversation about dating or boys or whatever. That’s mom’s thing. And even though actually I’m really interested in my daughter and I are very close, there’s this part of me that feels like I should stay out of it because it’s going to be uncomfortable.
S3: It’s uncomfortable for you or uncomfortable for her. I think we’re uncomfortable over her.
S5: Adam’s daughter is halfway through 16 and is at that age where she’s starting to explore. Her dad isn’t the type to try and sabotage, though. He actually wants to get involved and try and help guide her. Relationships in high school can be trap doors. And he’s thinking he actually can teach her things that her mother can’t. But there’s this problem. He actually has to bring it up first and get his 16 year old to listen.
S6: Hello and welcome to MAN UP, I’m your host, a minus smile. And on this show, we crack questions big and small about manhood. This week, Adam’s dilemma.
S5: Adam obviously isn’t the first dad to take interest in his daughter’s dating life, for better or worse. But he’s not trying to control her. He genuinely thinks that he can help. We usually hear about the other kind of dad, the one who bullies their daughters into abstinence or harasses the boys that they date. Are you familiar with the rapper T.I.?
S4: I only only a couple of songs. Oh, are you talking about this thing in the news?
S1: Re-architect. Yeah. Yeah, I heard about it. Yeah. Yeah. He he. I mean he now said it was a joke, but he was describing how he would cart his daughter to the gynecologist to have her hymen checked. Yeah. And I feel like he rightfully caught flak for that.
S7: It was pretty cringe to hear what I know usually like the day after the party. She’s enjoying the gifts. I put a sticky note on it. Don’t get no tomorrow. Oh, great. You know, I grew up that way.
S8: And like, I don’t know what his religious or cultural background is completely. But, you know, for for me. I grew up around the idea that, like, once you’d given your virginity away, you were kind of damaged goods. Right.
S4: Almost like like you could do this, but it would ruin it would ruin sexual experience or like it would diminish sexual experience for the rest of your life because you didn’t have a pure relationship between a husband and wife with nobody else that intruded on its subjects. But that’s like an old type of thinking that I’ve sort of put on the shelf. So I can I can be in contact with it emotionally. But it doesn’t have the same effect on me that it had.
S1: Then I kind of had that image in my head of the overbearing father who when his is going on a date, will like bring the shotgun to the door and throw on the date to be like, bring her back by 9:00 or X-Y. Yeah. Did you always feel this way or did any part of you feel uncomfortable with the idea of her one day having sex?
S4: I think, you know, when she was a little or a girl like ten or eleven, I think before she hit puberty, I knew it would happen intellectually. But of course, she’s still my little baby, you know. And I think I kind of pushed it off more. But I think I think what happened for me is. The more that I began to hear about her peers through the grapevine, the small school culture were part of, you know, she’d share she’d dish a story about a classmate that was, you know, very sexually adventurous and maybe, you know, racing way ahead of her peers or whatever. It was like, OK, well, this is gonna happen. And so how do I help her have this experience where she doesn’t expose herself to a lot of gossip. She’s respectful of her own privacy. You know, there’s no pictures, video or otherwise that are floating around anywhere that will come back and bite her in the butt. So I got, you know, like I think I just kind of got over it like this is going to happen. So, like, help her get the most out of it with the least risk.
S1: It sounds like you’ve done a lot to to sort of try and guide her. I wonder if you’ve actually tried to sit her down and discuss that with her?
S4: No, not really. No, no, absolutely not. Like I’ve I’ve talked to her mother about whether I should talk to her other moms, like you should try. But like, it’s still, I think, really embarrassing. Definitely. Every now and then, I’ll tease her a little bit, because, you know, when she has when she has a guy over, normally they spend most of time in a room, quote unquote, studying. I’ll teach her. I’ll be like, good, you know. So she had an assignment. She and her boyfriend didn’t do that well on the assignment. And I said, you know, maybe you guys should change the ratio of how much study and versus how much make out you’re doing.
S9: And she was like she just put up her hands. She goes, stop.
S1: We started to get a sense of like how uncomfortable this could actually be. Yeah. Exactly. So can you just help me understand, like, what is the nightmare scenario here? Is it that you expect her to totally be grossed out and withdraw or what exactly?
S8: Yeah. You know, I mean, I think the things that are on my heart I really want to share with her are the two of them are really difficult. I mean, like they’re like. Yes. I mean, they’re like the triple axel in the father child talk about sex. And one of them is. Trying to help her understand that, you know, probably a lot of the boys that she will be with or want to be with probably are really, really ignorant about sex. And like a lot of them get it way too much information from porn.
S4: And so like if she wants to have pleasurable experiences or teen and young adult years, she’s going to have to be assertive, like she’s going to have to be willing to educate a guy and like set boundaries and be able to prioritize her own pleasure. See that how you talked about that? You know, like not I don’t know how to get there as a dad to two, a daughter. But I think the other thing and what I worry about, too, is that I think a lot of times young people seem to have a much more casual view towards sex than when I was growing up. And I worry about her putting herself at risk for sexual assault because she’s gonna put herself in situations where she doesn’t realize that she’s at greater risk than she does. She understands because she’s smaller, you know, and the alcohol is ever involved. Like, you know, just like guys can be dangerous. And like, you’ve got to be wary. You know, we’ll talk about it so much. So I always know if she if she really understands that.
S1: Is not having the sex talk with her. No longer an option for you? Why?
S4: Why do you feel it have to do not only a longer option. I could still put it off. Are you planning to? I have talked to a lot about protecting yourself around assault. And you know, she heard that like that. Like that conversation didn’t go so badly. She really listened to it.
S1: So do you feel like you can trust her in those situations? Do you feel like you’ve done your part?
S4: Yeah. I mean, I know that there’s gonna be things she’s gonna do and not tell me about C-6 for the.
S10: Yeah, but for the big stuff. Like I do think I can trust her. And.
S4: You know, she’ll get there, she’ll she’ll do something that, you know, like steps outside of that. But like, my big goal was just to stave it off as far into the future as possible. Like. Yes, she’s probably in a mess around with alcohol and drugs down the road, you know. But if we could if I could get her to her very late teens or early 20s before that happens, I’ll be ecstatic.
S1: So if your wife kind of has a handle on everything, like what can you tell your daughter that her mother can?
S4: So I think some of it is that my daughter and I are a little bit more similar personality style. So sometimes think like she might take me a little bit more seriously if I shared with some of this. But I think the other thing, too, is like just maybe understanding a little bit the male experience and like how males kind of view this and can view this in the like, the cultural pressure that males have around dating and sex and conquest. And, you know, just so that she kind of goes into that sort of armed. I was told, Cameron, that we had this interesting thing where there was a young man who she’d been really interested in and she thought was interested in her. And they were together all summer. And then he kind of started really pulling back and didn’t seem to have time for her anymore. And we could tell her heart was really breaking and she was getting upset and she kept making excuses for him. And I my wife was like, well, you know, maybe he’s really busy or, you know, you know, maybe you should talk to him about how you feel. And you’re like, Mom, you don’t do that. Like, I’m not going to presume that, like, you know, he’s he’s got time for me or whatever. All right. And the more I was listening, the more I just kind of was. I said to my wife, I said, look, oh, she can hear this, but he’s just not into her. Like he’s got his driver’s license. He only lived fifteen minutes away. If he wanted to say or he could make type work. How did you know? Because I was a horny teenager. What if I. There was a.. If there was a girl I wanted to be with. And I could make I could squeeze time into it. I would I would make it happen. You know.
S1: So you have like that valuable male’s perspective that might be able to help her understand what she’s really up against it at work to walk or to talk about it.
S4: Sure. Because like the way I the way I dealt with that is I just passed it off to my wife and I said, look, she’s not a door. She just kind of needs to move on. She’s get ready to walk. And I don’t know, I don’t remember or know my wife, like, really pass that on to her. Not like but she you know, eventually I you know, through circumstance, eventually, I think got the message.
S5: After the break, we hear from his daughter, M.G..
S11: Hey, UMG. Hi, how are you? This is Aymond. How are you? All right. I was just doing some homework, so I remember homework
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