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Subreddit for the Dota Underlords game from Valve. Dota Underlords is stand-alone game that pits you against seven opponents in a battle of wits that will have you building, combining, and leveling-up a crew in a battle of dominance for the city of White Spire. In this game, victory is determined not by twitch reflexes, but by superior tactics.
what else being forgotten aside immortal treasure 3
Dota Underlords Open Beta is now available on PC, Android...
I really don't want to say it but.... they might have...
I don’t know if I’m the first to say this but...
I know I shouldn’t be proud of this but...
I feel like I shouldn’t have to say this, but...
Which removed alliance would you bring back?
Any tips to get 3 star tier 4 unit?
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How are artifacts numbers so high? Whenever I look, it's generally around 2.
Edit: Just looked. Artifact apparently has a much bigger Russian streaming scene than exists evening NA time.
Couple of Russian streamers pulling in audience
I heard from one ex pro Hearthstone player that the format in which qualifiers done is not very appealing for lots of CIS players. So apparently small players moved to another card games.
Last I heard people were streaming movies and porn via the artifact twitch streams
For those of us that don't play it, what is TFT doing to keep player numbers high that Underlords isn't? There's clearly something that people tend to like about that game that brings them back consistently.
Bigger playbase and more marketing. Most of my friends play LoL and TFT. So most of the times I log into TFT to play with friends, than solo Underlords.
Advertising, Twitch Prime partnerships and mobile ads mostly
TFT has also lost around 80% of its viewers since the early peak. For a long while it was a top 5 game on twitch, but now its down to 20k. Interestingly, when Legends of Runeterra was in beta - TFT dropped to under 10k because all the big streamers switched over.
So TFT may have some hard times ahead too when Runeterra releases fully. TFT has had some really really big ex-hearthstone streamers join for the huge LoL audience - but they will clearly move to whatever has the bigger audience. And right now its hearthstone battlegrounds, but most are migrating towards runeterra over TFT
I think maintaining an audience and playerbase will always be a challenge for auto chess games. Everything about the genre promotes burnout and stale metas, and the only way to really excite players is new units - which take a long time to create/test/release. And it only takes a week or two for players to 'solve' the meta
A big part of it probably is that it’s connected to the LoL client, so anybdoy playing league just sees it there.
If you're talking about Twitch viewers then most of it has to do with League's streaming history.
Old school League of Legends' streamers (most of them are retired pro players nowadays) are basically responsible for how big Twitch currently is. These guys created the HUGE streaming culture LoL has, and that culture never died. Look at the streaming base LoL has, it's insane. It's so big that even when the game is in a slump and people are getting tired of it, LoL still has a top spot on twitch.
That huge army of streamers naturally transferred themselves to TFT. Meanwhile, Dota NEVER (and not even close) developed the same streaming culture League did. This means no famous Dota pros or big streamers playing Underlords to help it's numbers. I think the only big streamer that played Underlords for some time was Admiral Bulldog, one of the VERY FEW ex Dota pros who actually streams and has a big following and he alone brought like 10k viewers to it when live.
I'm not sure how smaller Underlord's playersbase is compared to TFT, if 2x or 3x or 5x smaller, but it's definitely not small. I mean, I find matches almost instantly in whatever mode I play, be it Casual, Ranked or Duos.
Plus, I played both games extensively and I think Underlords is a better game. (SPECIALLY AFTER THEY ADDED DUOS)
TFT has far more replayability with the ability to craft 3 items for your carries. Two basic items can be combined into a total of 45 different crafted items, and you'll craft about 9 to 10 per game. Your items are super strong (some can give you extra alliances or give you strong effects like doubling your attack range, splash damage, spellpower, multi attack, crit, dodge, resurrect, infinite stacking attack speed, etc) and their stacking is what makes them broken. It's the DOTA philosophy - when everything is overpowered, nothing is. I'm sometimes underwhelmed by the items I get in UL honestly - who gets excited over a gloves of haste or blightstone?
Basically this means almost any 3 star hero can carry with the right items - just like DOTA. In UL, whenever I build a Luna, she's roughly the same. Her base damage and stats are more important than her items. Base 220, sacred relic is 60. In TFT there's multiple ways to build the same character - Damage? Spell power? Attack speed? Tank?
The fact that you can't take items off a hero in TFT gives an extra dimension to the game - if you save your items for your late game carry you're at a disadvantage early. If you save your items for later to combine into counters without combining them you're also at a disadvantage early. Hence you have the practice of putting them on early / mid game carries that transition later into late game carries - you might put some items into Fiora early (tier 1) and sell her later to transfer the items into Yasuo (tier 5)
Full disclosure: I play a lot of League and zero Dota and zero Underlords. But I did play Autochess back when it was popular and I keep tabs on games similar to the ones I play which is why I'm here.
Now, my understanding of Underlords is a little limited so if I get anything wrong please correct me.
Reasons why TFT is more popular than Underlords right now:
It's a League of Legends game. It was gonna be popular regardless, because it's literally a part of the biggest game in the world.
Items are really fun. They stack, have some crazy strong effects and synergies, and you can have three of them on a single champion. This creates a lot of interesting and funny strategies and it makes playing the same units multiple times in a row less repetitive since the items have such a huge effect on how the game plays out. From my understanding Underlord's items aren't as interesting or gamechanging overall, though that does make it easier to balance.
TFT matches are a lot shorter, which complements the main League gamemode very well. I like weaving TFT matches in with my usual League matches or when I want to play League but realize I don't want to make the commitment. If TFT were a standalone game, I wouldn't be playing it nearly as often. Also, this is what brings me back consistently, which was the core of your question.
TFT got big first, and people tend to prefer whatever is most popular when comparing two games. The fact Underlords often lags behind TFT, even if slightly, has hurt it's popularity more than most people realize imo.
TFT doesn't have Underlords. I hate the idea of having a pre-determined hero unit. Aside from the balancing issues, I don't like when a game about armies fighting introduces hero units. It takes attention away from the minion units and focuses too much on the hero unit, which I tend to find less interesting.
Regarding point 5, Underlords seems to make a lot of missteps. When I check in on this sub, it's usually 70% posts complaining about balance or repetition or a stale meta. The TFT subreddit is no stranger to those posts, but there are usually only one or two at a time at most, which is telling of the overall balance between the two games.
TFT feels a lot more social and less claustrophobic. I'm not sure what it is, but Underlord's perspective/lighting/map design is just not very enjoyable. It doesn't look bad, it just looks enclosed. Combined with what I believe to be a lack of a chat feature, and you get a very isolating game compared to TFT. I enjoy reading the chat and seeing the question mark pings from other people whenever the fight takes an unexpected turn.
And the final point I can think of is that where Underlords had a big update with a bunch of new units, TFT literally swapped out every single unit and 90% of synergies for it's new season. The difference between changing/adding a few units and replacing every single unit is pretty big honestly and will keep me interested a lot longer.
Sorry if that's longer than you were wanting, and I wish I had experience playing Underlords so that I could draw some more certain comparisons. It is interesting what separates the two games though. I think Underlords has potential but I don't think Valve is being quite as thoughtful as Riot when trying to improve the game.
Leagues got a bigger fanbase, and a more casual demographic because of that. League and TFT are also on the same client, and I believe TFT is automatically installed.
TFT viewership on Twitch is mostly hardcarried by a few notable streamers. Like right now Toast has 7,8k viewers, scarra has 4k, and everyone else is at or below 1k
Appealing to the lowest common denominator.
The adverts for LOL & TFT in China, are out of fucking control.
I think you have to look at it with all the facts involved. The screenshot doesn't do Underlords justice because viewership is generally not that low, it's typically around 2-5k whilst TfT is around 12-20k ish (of course this can fluctuate on a particular day). TfT is carried by the fact that it's based on LoL which is most likely the main source of its players. Big game + novel game mode + good advertising = strong player count. That said, Underlords has established a niche of its own and its concurrent peak on a daily basis hasn't dropped below 20k in months. Valve needs to really start advertising the game but I'm guessing they'll do that at or post-1.0 which makes more sense.
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