Call Holes
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Call Holes
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Thread starter
USER1999
Start date
Nov 22, 2011
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
25,671
Location
Watford
Call down holes.
Given the outcome of the recent court case, have these had their day?
I have never been in favour really. For a questionable increase in the speed of play, you stand just off the green, and invite the guys behind to hit balls at you. If they did this on any other hole you would be livid.
It is always at a distance where there is no guarantee of accuracy (200 yards plus, although I am equally as inaccurate from 50 yards), and at a distance where often the ball is beyond the limits of the eyesight of the hitter, or the guy on the receiving end, so no one has a clue where the ball is going.
That doesn't even take into account days when it is murky, or there is a low sun.
We had a call down hole when I first joined my club, and then got rid of it. It was partially restored last year, until a risk assessment was done on it, and it was reverted back to normal play. Even when it was a call down, people mainly ignored it. It didn't really do much any way. It moved the hold up on that tee, to a hold up on the next.
Would you now be comfortable playing when guys are within range? Would your insurance still cover you if you have deliberately hit at guys in range, and have not shown due diligence?
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
4,061
Location
Welwyn
We had a call up hole, didn't work and was dropped very quickly. I agree that surely this presents liability issues. Not a good idea in these litigeous times, and I dont think it speeds things up much anyway.
I've only played on 1 call up hole and we did as we should and let the group behind tee off while we waited on the green and all that happened was that the group behind were even closer to us than before. Couldn't see any point in it at all.
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
2,635
Location
Newtownards, Co. Down, N.I.
Our 3rd hole a 210yd par 3 is a call through hole. I do not understand what purpose it serves and have only seen it used by a society group I played with on a Sunday morning but it did not speed things up, in fact to me it slowed us as the people on the green down rather than made things faster.
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
33,412
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Technically, we have a call-up hole.
Our 5th - 208 off the tips. It even says on the card that it's a call-up hole.
When the club first opened it was used all the time.
Over the years, it's use has diminished until now where the only time I've ever been called-up was yesterday.
We waited on the 4th tee and approach shots for the mixed 4-ball in front. Got to the 5th tee and they were just walking down having played their tee shots.
The chipped onto the green, marked their balls, stood aside and waved us on.
Why?
We played our shots, they got on with putting as we walked down, we chipped and putted and then stood behind them on the 6th tee.
It sped up our pace of play for about 2 minutes but it only meant we waited longer on the 6th tee than we would have if they hadn't called us up in the first place. Didn't actually save any time at all.
Mystifying............
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
1,497
Location
East Herts
Long par 3s are tough enough, without the added pressure of potentially killing someone every time you hit your tee shot.
Not for me thanks.
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
683
Location
Hull
We have 4 maybe 5 drivable par 4s at my club and none of these are call up holes. We just allow anyone not going for the green to tee off first. As has been said all a call up hole does is move the problem to the next tee. The most important thing is that you crack on off the next tee to allow the field to spread out again.
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
3,710
Location
Berkshire
We have a 275 yard par 4. Reachable by a lot of players and more when the tee is up or when it's running but quite a fiddly hole. Lots of guys wait to drive and we tried it as a call up hole for a season. Not really any danger as very few would fly it all the way but in theory it would save some people waiting while the group ahead putted in case their ball rolled onto the green. It should have worked but it didn't.
Why?
1. We all kept forgetting it was a call up hole.
2. The previous hole is a long 4 as is the next so it never really saved any time as it was not a major bottle neck.
3. Nobody really minded waiting on the tee. It is in a lovely part of the course just over half way round and you can watch people play to a nearby par 3 while you are waiting. Golf isn't all about rushing round after all.
4. There is also another tee close by and sometimes you had to wait while people teed off there anyway.
5. Because you didn't know who you were calling up you'd often wait while the 4 ball behind all laid up.
Yes having it as a call up would occasionally save a few minutes per round but at the end of the day it was easier just to go back to how it was.
I don't think I'd be happy with having a par 3 as a call up hole. You may end up having to mark other players balls and I can't see that it would save that much time in most cases.
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
15,532
Location
Croydon, Surrey
Long par 3s are tough enough, without the added pressure of potentially killing someone every time you hit your tee shot.
Not for me thanks.
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
1,078
Location
West Lothian
Our 8th (long par 3) was a call up hole.
There was a sign on the tee and near green reminding you as such
It was dropped as a call up hole at the beginning of this season on legal advice over liability if you were injured when standing back and got hit.
The long and short of it was the club would be liable as they were enforcing the call up. One or two other clubs in the area have also dropped theirs
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
12,873
Location
Rutland
We have dropped both of ours as well though not sure if the decision was based on legal reasons or just pace of play. People do still call up on these holes occasionally and use them as accepted places to call a group through.
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
1,510
Location
Surrey
We have 3 220+ yard par 3 holes (228, 229 and 243 yards). None of these are "call up" holes as such, but the local rule is that when all players are on the green, the people on the tee must tee off.
Whenever someone who hasnt played at my place plays they really cant get their head round the rule, to them it doesnt seem right, which I would guess would be most of you too.
As its the first club Ive joined, its normal for me. once the group in front are on the green you hit your tee shot.
Let's face it, if it does hit someone its not going to be on the full and a good cry of Fore should prevent that anyway.
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
33,412
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
We have 3 220+ yard par 3 holes (228, 229 and 243 yards). None of these are "call up" holes as such, but the local rule is that when all players are on the green, the people on the tee must tee off.
Whenever someone who hasnt played at my place plays they really cant get their head round the rule, to them it doesnt seem right, which I would guess would be most of you too.
As its the first club Ive joined, its normal for me. once the group in front are on the green you hit your tee shot.
Let's face it, if it does hit someone its not going to be on the full and a good cry of Fore should prevent that anyway.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
25,281
Location
Herts/Beds border
We have 3 220+ yard par 3 holes (228, 229 and 243 yards). None of these are "call up" holes as such, but the local rule is that when all players are on the green, the people on the tee must tee off.
Whenever someone who hasnt played at my place plays they really cant get their head round the rule, to them it doesnt seem right, which I would guess would be most of you too.
As its the first club Ive joined, its normal for me. once the group in front are on the green you hit your tee shot.
Let's face it, if it does hit someone its not going to be on the full and a good cry of Fore should prevent that anyway.
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
683
Location
Hull
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
35
Location
Essex
We have a couple on long par 3s at our place. It drives me crazy having to wait for the group behind to tee off knowing that they are going to be right behind you on the next tee. On a busy morning, it can create an unnecessary gap between you and the group in front as well, especially if they decided not to call you up.
The only benefit I have seen is that the group on the green can help locate stray balls, but that's about it.
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
167
Location
Bucks
We have 3 220+ yard par 3 holes (228, 229 and 243 yards). None of these are "call up" holes as such, but the local rule is that when all players are on the green, the people on the tee must tee off.
Whenever someone who hasnt played at my place plays they really cant get their head round the rule, to them it doesnt seem right, which I would guess would be most of you too.
As its the first club Ive joined, its normal for me. once the group in front are on the green you hit your tee shot.
Let's face it, if it does hit someone its not going to be on the full and a good cry of Fore should prevent that anyway.
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
1,510
Location
Surrey
From what I've found its not a problem. visitors arent allowed at peak times, Saturday mornings or Sundays so its never an issue. I'm sure that when visitors do come they are told of the rule, but if it was midweek for example, it's not busy so no rush, so it wouldnt be a problem anyway.
During weekends, when the comps are on, its members only, and we all know the rules, so again, not an issue. Perhaps different from most clubs but it works at ours and helps keep the pace of play moving along nicely.
Homer was a member for a few years, I'm sure he has far more experience with them than me, ive only been there since January.
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
14,192
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Technically, we have a call-up hole.
Our 5th - 208 off the tips. It even says on the card that it's a call-up hole.
When the club first opened it was used all the time.
Over the years, it's use has diminished until now where the only time I've ever been called-up was yesterday.
We waited on the 4th tee and approach shots for the mixed 4-ball in front. Got to the 5th tee and they were just walking down having played their tee shots.
The chipped onto the green, marked their balls, stood aside and waved us on.
Why?
We played our shots, they got on with putting as we walked down, we chipped and putted and then stood behind them on the 6th tee.
It sped up our pace of play for about 2 minutes but it only meant we waited longer on the 6th tee than we would have if they hadn't called us up in the first place. Didn't actually save any time at all.
Mystifying............
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
14,192
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Copy and paste job on the recent court case
A Manchester golfer who lost an eye during a round of golf has been awarded nearly £400,000 in damages.
Anthony Phee who was a visiting golfer playing Niddry Castle Golf Club, Winchburgh, West Lothian said that he had ducked and put his hand up when he heard the cry of “Foreâ€. Unfortunately this defensive action did not stop the ball striking him in the eye which “exploded†on impact. Mr Phee sued both the player who struck the shot, Mr Gordon, and also the golf club.
Mr Phee commented “I’m delighted at the judgement and relieved that the court case is overâ€.
“No-one expects to lose an eye when they go to play golf and adjusting to partially losing my sight has been a harrowing experience. I now just want to move on with my lifeâ€.
Mr Phee was walking between holes with his golfing companions when he was struck in the eye by a tee shot from Mr James Gordon.
The Court of Session in Edinburgh awarded damages of £397,000 with Lord Brailsford deciding that Mr Gordon from Livingston was 70% liable and Niddry Castle Golf Club, 30% liable.
Fragger
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Detailing and Drawings > Annotations > Hole Callouts
Best results are obtained by creating holes using the Hole Wizard.
You cannot select advanced holes for hole callouts or hole tables. If you select a face, hole tables do not include advanced holes.
The axis of the hole must be normal to the drawing sheet.
The Hole Callout tool adds driven diameter dimensions to holes created by the Hole Wizard or circular cut features.
Hole callouts are available in drawings. If you change a hole dimension in the model, the callout updates automatically.
Hole callouts use Hole Wizard information when you create a hole with the Hole Wizard. The default formats for the Hole Wizard types are stored in
\solidworks\lang\\calloutformat.txt . A second file, calloutformat_2.txt , is a simplified version. You can edit either file. If you want to use the second file, you must rename the file to calloutformat.txt , which is the file name the SOLIDWORKS software references. You can set the location of the default folder for Hole Callout Format File in
Tools > Options > System Options > File Locations
.
The number of instances is included in the hole callout if a hole in a linear or circular pattern was created in the Hole Wizard. In the JIS standard, you can change the number of instances indicator to "x" or "-".
A hole callout using information from the Hole Wizard:
The same hole callout, but defined by geometry:
A cut feature representing a hole. The cut feature must contain a circular sketch:
You can add tolerances and precision to hole callouts:
You can add hole callouts in standard drawing views and in section views.
You can create hole callouts for holes created with the Advanced Hole tool.
You can change the number of instances indicator to a dash or "x" for the JIS standard only.
You can modify the hole callout format
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