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A member of the well-known Magnum Photos agency who came to Latvia to take part in the Riga Photomonth photography festival, he sees photography as a platform of personal, political and aesthetic confrontation, in which he has no right or wish to be a protected onlooker and through which he captures institutional and existential violence — prostitutes, drug addicts and migrants. My body has become weak from the workload, chemicals and stress. And I keep overburdening myself. The same drugs and excess are everywhere. The body takes part in it all, but it hurts. To me, drugs are about wanting as much as possible from life. People who have gotten carried away with alcohol and then stopped drinking say they are dizzied by the sudden sense of clarity. My experience comes largely from other people. I need to find these people and convince them to talk to me, and these are very intimate meetings. To get close to these people, to lose your mind and allow for these odd and miraculous meetings to occur, you need drugs, alcohol or anything else that lets you connect and forget about limits and morals. To get close to these people, you have to trade your common sense and do what these people expect from you. These people trust me and share their reasons for being, their experiences, names and characters. However, they also expect everything in return. I want everything. I want for those meetings to be complete. I am them all at once. There is a price to pay to get to that level of madness and unconsciousness. Coughs No! Of course, drugs have become my lifestyle, a part of my body. After messing around with amphetamines and experimenting with that level of sensuality, you want to take your own life. To get back to life and just feel normal, I have to use morphine or heroin. When I say this method works for me, it means I know how to use these excessive means to reach my goal and continue exploring. I have control over all other drugs. Doctors help me deal with the mad lows, and I use the morphine they legally prescribe, as well as heroin to avoid losing my mind. After a crack and crystal meth cycle, the mind no longer follows and it gets really hard. I only use drugs when I need to meet certain people and understand certain things. Very little, only when needed for socialising. I used to use alcohol for many years. I had hepatitis C and my liver is like a large sponge. Then I seriously cut down on the alcohol. It takes more from me than it gives. Yes, of course, because I grew up in the s when Marseille was getting over the French Connection years ed. Even kids from good backgrounds used it. Many people used heroin. Yes, I injected it. I started doing it when I was It was the lifestyle in Marseille — a very poor city without any prospects. So, heroin was one of the things kids could do. The city had major unemployment and economic issues, you could only get odd jobs. There were powerful social protests in Marseille and I grew up on the streets with anarchists and a sort of situationist movement. From the very beginning, politics and life on the street went hand in hand for me. And so it remains. Afterwards, I moved to Bristol where I became a heroin dealer in the squats. I started to travel a lot. I went to Nicaragua and El Salvador where war was raging, and I received drug shipments, got high and reveled with the prostitutes. I wanted to be a part of life on the streets, and Marseille where lifestyle and politics were one was a decisive factor in this decision. Politics not through ideas and the mind but through the lifestyle. That would be the same as comparing Latvia to Russia. My mother comes from a family of Sicilian fishermen. Most of my uncles were fishermen in Marseille but my dad was a butcher and so were his ancestors. My brother is still a butcher. When I was 17, my first job was as a butcher at an abattoir. Leaving school, it was a good way to enter life. Like a slap in the face. Your day starts with stacks of dead flesh. Of course, when you watch someone take drugs, the whole thing seems different to what it means for the user. My drug use was largely dictated by my political conscience. Very extremely so. I was sympathetic to leftist terrorist organisations. It was the late s. Our heroes were Jacques Mesrine — a big French gangster, a police murderer who ended up killed by the police in the streets, German terrorist Andreas Baader and Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols. Different influences, you could say. Those were different times, very different from today. Yes, I live in the mountains, yes, I live with drug addicts, prostitutes and criminals. And this is the question that interests me the most — how does one get as much as possible out of life when one has nothing. You have to create new emotional and social layers. Yes, but my criteria is comfort. Of course, people who lead normal lives get depressed, hurt and experience social isolation. They are people whose minds and bodies are exposed to life without any protection. Their confrontation with life can be through drugs, sex, illness — HIV, for example. I only have one life and, of course, I want to gain as much as possible from it — I want to see and feel as much as possible. I want to be alive. A more humble and outwardly normal life can also conceal existential drama. Is that not like a consumer mentality — live for today, catch the moment, indulge in your senses! Sort of like the ads. Of course, a person who goes to work every day, watches TV in the evenings and shops at the mall at weekends can have a profound existential experience, but at the end of the day it spawns from frustrations, from obsessing over security, from concealment and suppression. All of these things are contrary to the potential of life. Among them are people who were raped as children, left in the streets and otherwise humiliated. No one listens to them. They are where they are because they no longer have a choice. And then I meet them. I meet people who go against the logic of self-defense. Ones who are too insane, too ill, too addicted to whatever is doing them harm. Say prostitutes who sell themselves for drugs and get addicted to work that kills them. Occasionally, it has worked. For example, one of the prostitutes married a soldier and is now raising kids. I had to buy her out in Cambodia. But how many times can you do something like that? And who am I to judge these people? I think that what I do in my situation makes more sense than trying to save these people. Refusing to give up, stop, and keep trying — now, there is a point to that. To me, the point is not to succumb to the shivers that can overcome you, and not to build a home, find a nice girl to settle down with and have kids. Existentialism, situationism — of course, all those things made me, they are still a part of me but I am nothing. You descend to hell when you need to. I go to the Magnum offices when I need something. My belonging to Magnum is purely strategic, I use Magnum. No, I need it to give myself as much freedom as possible. Before turning to photography I was a builder and that job was killing me. I use photography, Magnum and my gallery only to take what I want, that is as much money as I need to keep living. In my mind, photography is a unique language. Other forms of art let you go to your studio, you have your vision and you create your piece of art. Photography gets used in a space and time in certain situations. You have to be part of them and you create your art at the same time as you find yourself in a specific situation. For an entire century, photographers focused on watching — composition, lighting, visualisation. Because you are responsible for this situation. The visual part undoubtedly helps me say what I want, but my logic has always been to forge intimate relationships with the world of photography. That revolves around the same idea. I previously mentioned the odd mix of social awareness and self-destructive instinct. When I spent a year in Cambodia using drugs, I had to return to reality. I had to go to war to feel fear, to confront myself with the wish to escape, the pointless violence and corpses, and to wake up in the reality of life. I went to Tripoli when it fell and spent a month there. Being there I wanted only to escape because I was incredibly scared. You should check out the last book — Antibodies or Anticorps in French. I occasionally take photos of an economic nature — unemployment, migration. After publishing the book I mentioned I photographed migration — people trying to get from Africa to Europe. I even took photos of architecture — ways in which it depicts violence. So, one is my violence and the other is one I fear and one that fascinates me. When I photograph war, the economy, migration and architecture, I do it remotely, with my mind. The photos are usually sharp, distanced, cold. I give my camera to someone else and delve into that world. Afterwards, of course, I thoroughly edit and arrange them, try to inject them with meaning because I want them to be coherent. I dispose of a lot of photos and keep the most effective ones. I want good photos, namely, photos that open up mental spaces. After many years of simultaneously taking photos and drugs in the name of forgetting myself, I no longer even want to hold a camera. Yes, the people I meet. Last year, I made a film that will be released soon. Part of it was shown on French TV in December. Most of it was filmed on a tripod. Are your photos blurry to ensure the subjects, you included, a comfort zone of anonymity? No, blurriness is a method to me. I think photography should be used to depict reality rather than an idea. For many years, blurriness has let me reveal new layers of reality. Blurriness is just one way of ensuring it. Are you a technical photographer? Do you give a lot of thought to the technical quality? No, I think about how to avoid it. To do that, of course, you have to know the techniques and how to control them. The same applies to lighting — I use as little lighting as possible. My work is as untechnical as possible. I use cameras with automatic settings and a motor. But to do that, of course, you have to know your camera and techniques. He has almost the same approach as you — to get fully involved in the situation. I think Anders is a wonderful photographer. He IS a photographer. His way is to look at the world and think of a way to look at the world. You once said in an interview that you share the pain of the subjects in your photos. Yes, of course. The biggest difference is that whatever I do and the price I pay for it, be it death, is my choice. You can see violence in these seemingly tiny bodies, all bent over. This violence is part of a sexual act, part of social interaction in these social circles. I want to show this violence. Quite a few of my photos show girls screaming with their mouths wide open, and you can see the pain. But the pain is never brought on by violence, the pain is brought on by pleasure and is mixed with pleasure. The pain comes from ecstasy, from orgasm. And this pain is important to me — the pain of pleasure. I have to depict this pain, this violence and confrontation that are a part of sex. You ask from others to forget themselves but do your job at the same time. Of course, I go there to do my job and people know that — I lay my cards on the table right away. These people talk to me, they share their thoughts, they let themselves be photographed and they help me take photos. I pay the price I have to pay. Sometimes, I pay money because I want to out of respect. You have to pay people who sell their bodies for money. I give however much I can afford, irrespective of whether I gain something or not. But there are other ways of demanding respect. Yes, very much so. His work resonates profoundly and beautifully. Of course, for Bataille fiction is a way of dealing with his challenges whereas my challenge was to return to reality and see if I could find the same amount of intensity, beauty and insanity in my own experiences, rather than my fantasy world. Reality can give me as much as his words have given me. But yes, to this day his words continue to show me the way. Yes, I concede we could share a few common obsessions and interests. We are very different people. We have very different ways of working with things but sometimes we meet and have a drink together. Considering your fellows are well known personalities in French culture, can we talk of a certain French intellectual disposition? It may be easier to see from the sidelines. But, of course, I grew up there as a child and France is part of me. I had his Journey to the End of the Night in my bag for 12 years. I spent my final year at high school working at an abattoir and completed my high school education later on, at night school. I already felt too old. I was already 32 years old then and the studies were more like workshops with photographers and less like university. I then returned to France and worked as a builder by day and a barman by night. In , I was asked to do an exhibition of my old photos and I organised a small show at a cafe. In , I was approached by Magnum and turned them down. When they later wrote to me a second time, I agreed because my relationship with Christian and his agency had become almost family-like and claustrophobic. Currently, Magnum deals in advertising and corporate work. Magnum has been conquered by money. I have four daughters from three different women. They are close. For example, one of my daughters is currently spending two months with her half-sisters even though the mother refuses to see me. They dont want to know more, and they avoid this side of me. They do not accept what I do, but I think they understand why I am doing it — that is, trying to find my way to be human — and that it is important to me. We are very close to each other, and they usually poke some fun at me for what I do. No, never. With the exception of war, of course, in which everything becomes useless, and you just want to stop the world. Of course, sometimes I do reportage work. For example, in Cambodia, I was travelling with NGOs, tracking pedophiles and shooting them as they approach children. But the people from the organizations stopped them, not me, I was just a witness. Being a witness is not my usual way of working — my usual way of working is to be an actor in own life. Yes, sometimes there is a context of existential violence in my work — AIDS patients, prostitutes, who have no choice. I try to get as close to these people as possible. In this context, my most recent film, Atlas, is very important. All the girls talk about AIDS, about themselves and about me, our relationship, my desires, and sometimes they are angry at me and complain that I want everything. The only thing I can give these people is respect — to be close to them, listen to them, look at them, make love to them. No one wants to be close to some of these girls and make love to them, because they are too sick. If taking responsibility means seeing all people as equal and being with them, I take responsibility. But to change their lives? No, I cannot. I cannot even change my own life — I am addicted to drugs and I have made my choices. My current official girlfriend is a porn actress. Most of my girlfriends are prostitutes and go out every night, because I do not support them financially — relationships cannot be based on money. My moral is — never get too comfortable, never protect yourself, never avoid pain — always confront the intensity and pain. Your have the nonconformist attitude of a young rebel. Over time, most people surrender to the temptation of a more normal life. Yes, most people surrender, but not me. I am a very privileged person. How could I get bored? Creating a new life is not an option — life is absurd. Of course, I also do perfectly normal things — go fishing with my lover, go for a walk with her through the woods, or look at the cherry trees blossoming in spring. My photos show only one aspect — the carnal side of life. In general, I experiment with different experiences. This is because my goal is not to document my life, it is to let my own fear and anger be expressed and find a visual form. And that does not include eating breakfast with a nice girl. It involves a process in which human flesh and screams become something transformative. But many believe that I take pleasure in my work and crave sex. I use sex because it is an area with a lot of options. I chose this area because it is what I fear most. When I the fear stops, I stop taking photos. I work with fear itself, surrendering to my own fear. No, but two of them were drug addicts, who I photographed. But they are good mothers — I think I have an instinct for that. I do not support misery, drug abuse or violence — it all saddens me. But I have to be a part of it. You should ask your online magazine to order my latest book Antibodies — there are 30 pages of text in quite a good English translation, which explains my opinion much better than this conversation. I usually know straight away. I look for the most extreme people. The ones who are beyond caring, beyond normality. Of course, not all of them want to talk to me. In your artistic explorations, have you ever attracted the attention of the police, or on the contrary, criminals? Yes, of course, many times. Sometimes I pose as a reporter to get into certain places. But people recognize me as an addict within seconds. There have been police raids that I have run away from and hid. Many things. For example, to perform a violent act on anyone who does not desire it. Violence may also be a part of sex, and in my opinion that is not harmful violence. But a single slap to anyone who does not want it is wrong. Pedophilia is also taboo. I do not give money to street children, because I think it just perpetuates the vicious circle of misery. The father is dead. My mother is 75 years old and regularly admonishes me not to sleep with just anyone. For a long time, it was very hard for them to accept what I do. Since the age of 17, we had a somewhat bitter relationship. Our relationship is a long story. As we all grew older, it became easier to accept each other. My mother now says that I have helped her understand something about life. Of course, we still disagree on many issues. Your desire to look the truth in the eye and share the pain of others seems almost like an ascetic Christian viewpoint. No, I am a strict atheist, but with a very strong religious past. Even at the age of 14, I wanted to become a priest. I went to a preparatory course for priests. I was very involved in religion. I was also very interested in the criticism of the extreme left, and so in six months I went from an apprentice priest to a punk. It is about life and the question of what life is. Life revolves around a godless world and unanswerable questions — not Stalinism and communism. Of course, the avoidance of comfort and the need to confront myself with life has roots in some long-ago influences. But I have seen to much shit, violence and pain to believe in any god. If god exists, he is a crazy bastard. You can see that well yourself smiles. You look good. Photo by Antoine D'Agata People who have gotten carried away with alcohol and then stopped drinking say they are dizzied by the sudden sense of clarity. A stereotypical Frenchman? But do you remember everything that happens? Do you use mainly amphetamines and crack on your social expeditions? And cocaine. This is a very detailed interview laughs. I just want to understand how these drugs help you. I have to emphasise that drugs are never the intention. Photo by Antoine D'Agata If your body is addicted then, in a way, drugs are your intention. I do it every day to stay sane. Does your lifestyle have anything to do with having grown up in Marseille? Did you inject it or smoke it? Antoine D'Agata. Sicilian immigrants. Do you eat meat? Were you a leftist and an anarchist? Do traces of an anti-elitist instinct remain within you? Does it never occur to you to help these people change their lives? What do you do? I go my own way, I go as far as possible and avoid compromise. In what way does this make sense? You sound like the last French existentialist. What is art in your opinion? Do you go to conflict zones? Photo by Antoine D'Agata Can you be seen in your own photos? Do you trust anyone with your camera? Photo by Antoine D'Agata Do you work with a digital camera? Do you know Anders Petersen? Yes, his works influenced me a lot when I was younger. Is that you in the photo? Do you like Michel Houellebecq? Did you graduate from high school? So, how did you get to study with Nan Goldin? How did you become a photographer for Magnum? Magnum gives you commissions, right? What is your disagreement with Magnum? Photo by Antoine D'Agata Speaking of family — do you have one? Do your daughters know about your working process? So your work is based on fear? So you are somewhat familiar with security. How do you find the characters in your photographs? What is taboo to you? Photo by Antoine D'Agata Do your parents know how you work? How did you start to rebel against religion? Were you captivated by the ideas of communism? Olof Jarlbro Swedish photographer goes back to Nepal over and over again to make his photographic projects.
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