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Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 2:45pm
This came up on another blog and I wondered what other people's opinions are. Maybe I'm the odd one out with my opinion.
It was said that appropriate punishment is blistering a bare ass with a belt, paddle, hand
EDIT - This was advocated for OLDER children -age 12+. If I heard of a grown man who was baring the asses of someone that age I'd want him arrested.
END EDIT
I was sickened when I read this. I don't think any human being EVER has the right to humiliate another, particularly a child and making them bare their asses to be beaten with an object is all about humiliation, power and control. I AM opposed to spanking for me and my family but I do understand that some people want to do it and that it's their right to do so if it works for them as long as it's done in moderation.
However, making a child remove their clothing for punishment is a step WAAAY too far in my opinion. I think it's sadistic.
I'm curious what others think though. I am the one with the minority opinion?
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 2:56pm
The person advocating this was talking about kids 12 years and older too.
Frankly, I think any SOB who bares a 12 year old's ass - for ANY excuse unless he's a doctor doing an exam - should be in prison but that's just my opinion.
Submitted by anita...sigh on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:41pm
Once they are old enough to communicate and reason with (not older than 3) there is no reason to swat a kid except for real shitty parenting.
The punishment noted above is physical assault, sexual assault, assault with a weapon and assault causing bodily harm. All serious criminal offences. This bastard should be tracked down and reported to the authorities.
Submitted by anita...sigh on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 5:09pm
And I have spanked my kids after 3 but I know now that one kid it was effective and one it wasn't.
I'm not judging here but the punishment described by the o/p is absuvive
You have to find what is the most effective punishment for a child and use that to your advantage.
Most people who use corporal punishment (myself included) do NOT cross the boundary of abuse but the corporal punishment described by the 0/p is.
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:09pm
We had to go out and pick out the switches too but that was so long ago.
I just couldn't do it with any of my kids. I do understand that some do and it works for them. I guess the key is doing what works right for you. Spanking wouldn't have worked for me because it just didn't feel right to me. If you can pull it off and it works, more power to you. I found other ways and I've got grown kids who are doing great and were never in trouble so it worked for us.
Anyway, I was just shocked at what I read. I didn't think anyone still thought that it was OK to humiliate a child by pulling their pants down and hitting a bare bottom. I just don't see the point in degrading and humiliating them that way. I'd guess that's a good way to teach children to hate, especially an older child.
I mean, my god, a child of 12 will have pubic hair. A girl may be having her period. I just can't imagine having some old leach thinking it's a great thing he's doing if he bares their asses.
I'm still thoroughly disgusted at the thought.
Submitted by SteppingUp on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:14pm
I have mixed feelings on spanking. In my youth, I remember being spanked, but not very often. The very last time I was spanked it was by my mother, and I must have been in about 5th or 6th grade. My parents got into a fight about it afterwards because my dad felt that I was too old to be spanked, and at the time I of course agreed with him. I still agree with him now that I'm a 'parent' and I can see that at that age there would be much more effective punishments (grounding from friends, tv, computer, etc) than spanking. I had been smarting off to my mother though and her first reaction after growing so angry with me was to spank me.
I don't feel comfortable spanking as I've come to realize that in the moments where I feel like a spank is needed, I actually need a time out as much as the kid. I think sometimes when our anger builds to a place where it hasn't been before (or in awhile), we need a quick release, and spanking seems an easy to way to kill two birds with one stone -- the child causing the anger is getting punished and the spanker is offered a release.
On the other side of things, I sometimes see spanking as a last resort. For example, SS3 has a knack for already being in trouble, doing something to make his situation worse, and then smiling or laughing about it. Last night, he drew on our microfiber, tan couch with permanent marker. He was caught by DF. We both gave him a yelling at, which caused him to cry a little bit, but it was fakey crying. I grabbed a rag and soap and he had to sit there and try to clean it by himself. He was told he would be going to bed right after dinner. I supervised as I could see that DF needed a time out. Every time the kid looked at me and said, "Done!" and it was clearly not done as he'd barely touched it, I could feel the anger welling inside of me. I had to leave the room to check dinner on the stove (and give myself a time out) and I told him that he better still be cleaning when I get back. I left for 30 seconds. I came back and he was jumping up and down on the OTHER couch, giggling and laughing. My anger hit the ROOF. He got screamed at again by me, this time DF came in again because I have NEVER yelled at SS that bad. Then we discovered that he lost the rag. I counted to 5 for him to find his rag -- very slowly -- and he couldn't find it. He started to laugh and was smiling. DF spanked him, and in my opinion it was totally justified. SS sat and cleaned the couch for a half an hour, crying.
The only times I've ever seen DF spank SS is when it's been a situation like this -- total defiance, we've already issued a time out or consequence(s) and he continues...and then LAUGHS about it. In 2 years, I remember 4 occassions where DF has spanked SS3 and only once when he has spanked SD5.
Submitted by Synaesthete on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 7:44pm
I don't feel comfortable spanking as I've come to realize that in the moments where I feel like a spank is needed, I actually need a time out as much as the kid. I think sometimes when our anger builds to a place where it hasn't been before (or in awhile), we need a quick release, and spanking seems an easy to way to kill two birds with one stone -- the child causing the anger is getting punished and the spanker is offered a release.
This part just reminds me of something I read once. After our heart rates rise to a certain point as a result of stress, logical parts of our brain lock up and we quite literally are unable to reason. Taking a step back or a time out is good for any conflict, and from that angle I can see where the impulse to spank comes from even though I disagree with it.
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:19pm
Maybe. My instinct has been to not take much of it seriously.
I just couldn't let this one go though.
It's not the spanking part that has me worked up. It's the humiliation of having a child that old remove their clothing that makes me sick.
Plus I'm in the worst mood today that I've been in for several months so that probably has a lot to do with it.
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:28pm
It really depends on the circumstances. I try to make the punishment fit the crime as much as possible.
SD used to pull ALL the clothes off the hangars and toss them all around the room. She'd do this every time she was over. I got so sick of hanging everything up again just to have her trash it. Her 'consequences' were that I pulled everything out of EVERY closet and made her rehang EVERYONE's clothes. It took hours but I didn't relent. She had to do it before she could do anything else, including have dinner with the rest of the family.
She hasn't pulled the clothes out of the closet since.
I did something similar with my DD years ago when she consistently wouldn't follow our family practice of rinsing off your dinner plate and putting it in the dishwasher. I pulled out every dish in the house and made her wash them by hand.
Submitted by SteppingUp on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:29pm
That's a tough question, as the things you mentioned we use as common consequences: bed early, no TV, or take away favorite toys, and they seem to work....and if we wanted something bigger we'd probably just combine a few things or stretch them a few days. Another one that would work well for my SS3 would be to have to be in his room or another room by himself for a certain amount of time. He usually doesn't mind his alone time for about 10 minutes but it would kill him to be alone for an hour and not have his sister to play with, especially if we were all playing a game or something. This would probably be equal to a spank for him.
Submitted by BitterSM on Sat, 09/11/2010 - 5:41pm
The bed wetting scenario bothers me. My SD 11 still wets the bed at night we have taken her to the Dr several times to have things checked the DR told us that it's not a physical problem but lots of kid's bladders just don't shut down at night like they are supposed to and when their body is ready it will. I have a friend whose daughter didn't stop until she was 13. This is not a behavior issue its a body function issue that they can't control, they are asleep! I haven't read the post that person wrote but I don't see how humiliating the child would have worked. As far as punishments we use that seem to be effective, for the boy 14 it's taking away TV for the girl 11 it's hard labor, raking the yard, scrubbing bathrooms etc.
Submitted by Chavez on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:32pm
I'm not a fan of bare butt spankings at all and I gave my DS plenty of spankings over his pants so I'm not against spankings altogether.
However, when my brother and I were kids, he was probably about 11 or 12 at the time we were both in serious trouble for something (I have no recollection of what) and we had to "wait for dad to get home". In the meantime we both knew we'd had it so my brother the genius goes to his room and puts on several pair of underwear and an extra pair of jeans for extra padding. Sooooo, when dad got home and had the belt I got my swats and when my brother bent over dad saw the extra padding and my brother snickered to him like he was oh so smart. Dad had him strip bare over that and he got twice as many swats. I'm pretty sure my brother deserved it.
Submitted by Rags on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 3:37pm
Who said anything about removing clothing? Dropping your pants and bending over is not removing clothing. Rearranging ..... yes, removing ... no. We are not talking about parading a naked kid in front of a tribunal before a flogging. We are talking about reasonable corporal punishment.
Regardless of if one is a proponent of corporal punishment of not, it can be an effective way to discipline.
The edit mentioning 12yr olds was also associated with a comment about caning miscreants in Singapore for graffiti, littering and spitting gum on side walks and not specifically for reasonable corporal punishment for a child. I personally believe that if kids had consequences when they were young we would not have many of the issues we have today as a society. That is why I mentioned Singapore in the other thread. There is no graffiti in Singapore because the adults nor the children want to be publicly strapped to a flogging frame to have their butts turned in to hamburger by a bamboo cane.
I think strapping a few idiot miscreant adults to a frame and flogging their asses in to hamburger would work here too. To bad no judge in this country has the balls to invoke that sentence. IMHO of course.
We spanked our son (my SS) when appropriate until he was ~12-13. He received maybe a half a dozen spankings in his life. I believe that spanking looses it's effectiveness at ~12-13. I got about a half a dozen spankings in my life. I got spanked the last time when I was ~ 14. My mom was pissed because my little bro and I were significantly late for dinner so she spanked us. I laughed. My little bro and mom also laughed. That ended my career of getting spanked. I was 14yo nearly 6ft tall. My mom is 5'1". Did I have to bend over and take a spanking? Nope, but I did because I respect my mom. We all still laugh about that spanking when it comes up.
As indicated by those who had to go cut their own switch .... the lead up is often more memorable than the actual swats. My dad was a belt guy. He would give the pre swat lecture while popping the belt against the side of his leg. Very effective tension leading up to the swats I have to tell you.
Not all kids require spanking. If your's don't .... that is great. I wish that were the case for all kids. But, for some kids, a spanking is entirely appropriate and necessary. I hate it when I encounter incorrigible little shits who run amok in public while there idiot parents ignore their behavior with a blank drooling stare or laugh it off as "isn't he so cute". It is all I can do to not spank the shit out of their idiot parents when I am sitting at dinner in a restaurant and a kid is screaming and running around the restaurant. SMACK!!!!
I think of spanking as a deterrent against poor behavior. Too bad we can't spank the shit out of the parents who don't teach their children appropriate behavior while expecting the rest of us to tolerate their incorrigible spawn.
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 4:52pm
I actually wrote a response to this a while back but didn't end up posting it.
There's a lot of anger in that post. I think therapy to deal with the violent tendencies would be in order.
Submitted by Rags on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 4:01pm
Wow, that is a sad story. I am sorry that happened to you.
I agree that spanking should never be done in anger.
Submitted by Chavez on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 4:49pm
And THAT is the difference between a good pop on the butt and a pure out beating. There is an enormous difference.
Submitted by WHERESMYWART on Sun, 09/12/2010 - 2:23pm
Submitted by PoisonApples on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 4:56pm
You know, I am a non violent person. I've actually written books on non-violent resistance (don't look for them, out of print already - weren't ever anywhere NEAR any best-seller list!)
However, I think if someoen put a FINGER on my child in an aggressive way I could damn passivity to hell and really let loose on them.
Submitted by Synaesthete on Fri, 09/10/2010 - 7:32pm
Personally, I am against corporal punishment. I believe it to be out-dated and studies have actually shown links between higher levels of aggression and violence in children who are spanked than in children who are not. I know that isn't the case for everyone, but it's worth looking at IMO. It makes sense - children look up to their parents and imitate them. The problem with spanking out of anger or frustration v
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