A Mom And A Daughter Having Sex

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A Mom And A Daughter Having Sex
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Like Mother, Like Daughter in the Club? Some mothers and daughters bond at the club, but some experts say that could be unhealthy.







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S1: This ad free podcast is part of your slate plus membership.
S2: So you have your your own 16 year old daughter now and you’re wanting to talk to her about her sexuality, but you’re not exactly sure how can you explain why?
S3: Well, you know, I mean, some of that, I think is like that general male acculturation we have that it’s the mom’s place.
S4: So like if they’re going to have a conversation about dating or boys or whatever. That’s mom’s thing. And even though actually I’m really interested in my daughter and I are very close, there’s this part of me that feels like I should stay out of it because it’s going to be uncomfortable.
S3: It’s uncomfortable for you or uncomfortable for her. I think we’re uncomfortable over her.
S5: Adam’s daughter is halfway through 16 and is at that age where she’s starting to explore. Her dad isn’t the type to try and sabotage, though. He actually wants to get involved and try and help guide her. Relationships in high school can be trap doors. And he’s thinking he actually can teach her things that her mother can’t. But there’s this problem. He actually has to bring it up first and get his 16 year old to listen.
S6: Hello and welcome to MAN UP, I’m your host, a minus smile. And on this show, we crack questions big and small about manhood. This week, Adam’s dilemma.
S5: Adam obviously isn’t the first dad to take interest in his daughter’s dating life, for better or worse. But he’s not trying to control her. He genuinely thinks that he can help. We usually hear about the other kind of dad, the one who bullies their daughters into abstinence or harasses the boys that they date. Are you familiar with the rapper T.I.?
S4: I only only a couple of songs. Oh, are you talking about this thing in the news?
S1: Re-architect. Yeah. Yeah, I heard about it. Yeah. Yeah. He he. I mean he now said it was a joke, but he was describing how he would cart his daughter to the gynecologist to have her hymen checked. Yeah. And I feel like he rightfully caught flak for that.
S7: It was pretty cringe to hear what I know usually like the day after the party. She’s enjoying the gifts. I put a sticky note on it. Don’t get no tomorrow. Oh, great. You know, I grew up that way.
S8: And like, I don’t know what his religious or cultural background is completely. But, you know, for for me. I grew up around the idea that, like, once you’d given your virginity away, you were kind of damaged goods. Right.
S4: Almost like like you could do this, but it would ruin it would ruin sexual experience or like it would diminish sexual experience for the rest of your life because you didn’t have a pure relationship between a husband and wife with nobody else that intruded on its subjects. But that’s like an old type of thinking that I’ve sort of put on the shelf. So I can I can be in contact with it emotionally. But it doesn’t have the same effect on me that it had.
S1: Then I kind of had that image in my head of the overbearing father who when his is going on a date, will like bring the shotgun to the door and throw on the date to be like, bring her back by 9:00 or X-Y. Yeah. Did you always feel this way or did any part of you feel uncomfortable with the idea of her one day having sex?
S4: I think, you know, when she was a little or a girl like ten or eleven, I think before she hit puberty, I knew it would happen intellectually. But of course, she’s still my little baby, you know. And I think I kind of pushed it off more. But I think I think what happened for me is. The more that I began to hear about her peers through the grapevine, the small school culture were part of, you know, she’d share she’d dish a story about a classmate that was, you know, very sexually adventurous and maybe, you know, racing way ahead of her peers or whatever. It was like, OK, well, this is gonna happen. And so how do I help her have this experience where she doesn’t expose herself to a lot of gossip. She’s respectful of her own privacy. You know, there’s no pictures, video or otherwise that are floating around anywhere that will come back and bite her in the butt. So I got, you know, like I think I just kind of got over it like this is going to happen. So, like, help her get the most out of it with the least risk.
S1: It sounds like you’ve done a lot to to sort of try and guide her. I wonder if you’ve actually tried to sit her down and discuss that with her?
S4: No, not really. No, no, absolutely not. Like I’ve I’ve talked to her mother about whether I should talk to her other moms, like you should try. But like, it’s still, I think, really embarrassing. Definitely. Every now and then, I’ll tease her a little bit, because, you know, when she has when she has a guy over, normally they spend most of time in a room, quote unquote, studying. I’ll teach her. I’ll be like, good, you know. So she had an assignment. She and her boyfriend didn’t do that well on the assignment. And I said, you know, maybe you guys should change the ratio of how much study and versus how much make out you’re doing.
S9: And she was like she just put up her hands. She goes, stop.
S1: We started to get a sense of like how uncomfortable this could actually be. Yeah. Exactly. So can you just help me understand, like, what is the nightmare scenario here? Is it that you expect her to totally be grossed out and withdraw or what exactly?
S8: Yeah. You know, I mean, I think the things that are on my heart I really want to share with her are the two of them are really difficult. I mean, like they’re like. Yes. I mean, they’re like the triple axel in the father child talk about sex. And one of them is. Trying to help her understand that, you know, probably a lot of the boys that she will be with or want to be with probably are really, really ignorant about sex. And like a lot of them get it way too much information from porn.
S4: And so like if she wants to have pleasurable experiences or teen and young adult years, she’s going to have to be assertive, like she’s going to have to be willing to educate a guy and like set boundaries and be able to prioritize her own pleasure. See that how you talked about that? You know, like not I don’t know how to get there as a dad to two, a daughter. But I think the other thing and what I worry about, too, is that I think a lot of times young people seem to have a much more casual view towards sex than when I was growing up. And I worry about her putting herself at risk for sexual assault because she’s gonna put herself in situations where she doesn’t realize that she’s at greater risk than she does. She understands because she’s smaller, you know, and the alcohol is ever involved. Like, you know, just like guys can be dangerous. And like, you’ve got to be wary. You know, we’ll talk about it so much. So I always know if she if she really understands that.
S1: Is not having the sex talk with her. No longer an option for you? Why?
S4: Why do you feel it have to do not only a longer option. I could still put it off. Are you planning to? I have talked to a lot about protecting yourself around assault. And you know, she heard that like that. Like that conversation didn’t go so badly. She really listened to it.
S1: So do you feel like you can trust her in those situations? Do you feel like you’ve done your part?
S4: Yeah. I mean, I know that there’s gonna be things she’s gonna do and not tell me about C-6 for the.
S10: Yeah, but for the big stuff. Like I do think I can trust her. And.
S4: You know, she’ll get there, she’ll she’ll do something that, you know, like steps outside of that. But like, my big goal was just to stave it off as far into the future as possible. Like. Yes, she’s probably in a mess around with alcohol and drugs down the road, you know. But if we could if I could get her to her very late teens or early 20s before that happens, I’ll be ecstatic.
S1: So if your wife kind of has a handle on everything, like what can you tell your daughter that her mother can?
S4: So I think some of it is that my daughter and I are a little bit more similar personality style. So sometimes think like she might take me a little bit more seriously if I shared with some of this. But I think the other thing, too, is like just maybe understanding a little bit the male experience and like how males kind of view this and can view this in the like, the cultural pressure that males have around dating and sex and conquest. And, you know, just so that she kind of goes into that sort of armed. I was told, Cameron, that we had this interesting thing where there was a young man who she’d been really interested in and she thought was interested in her. And they were together all summer. And then he kind of started really pulling back and didn’t seem to have time for her anymore. And we could tell her heart was really breaking and she was getting upset and she kept making excuses for him. And I my wife was like, well, you know, maybe he’s really busy or, you know, you know, maybe you should talk to him about how you feel. And you’re like, Mom, you don’t do that. Like, I’m not going to presume that, like, you know, he’s he’s got time for me or whatever. All right. And the more I was listening, the more I just kind of was. I said to my wife, I said, look, oh, she can hear this, but he’s just not into her. Like he’s got his driver’s license. He only lived fifteen minutes away. If he wanted to say or he could make type work. How did you know? Because I was a horny teenager. What if I. There was a.. If there was a girl I wanted to be with. And I could make I could squeeze time into it. I would I would make it happen. You know.
S1: So you have like that valuable male’s perspective that might be able to help her understand what she’s really up against it at work to walk or to talk about it.
S4: Sure. Because like the way I the way I dealt with that is I just passed it off to my wife and I said, look, she’s not a door. She just kind of needs to move on. She’s get ready to walk. And I don’t know, I don’t remember or know my wife, like, really pass that on to her. Not like but she you know, eventually I you know, through circumstance, eventually, I think got the message.
S5: After the break, we hear from his daughter, M.G..
S11: Hey, UMG. Hi, how are you? This is Aymond. How are you? All right. I was just doing some homework, so I remember homework.
S5: And geez, Dad describes her as having a good head on her shoulders. But she’s 16. I get why you can get icky. We’re all socialized to believe that boys and girls are on opposite ends of the spectrum. So it makes sense that she’s thinking that her dad just can’t relate.
S2: So how would you describe your relationship with your dad?
S12: Me and my dad are really close. We’re very similar, especially like with our personalities and our sense of humor. So I think that, like, I feel like I can tell lot. I’m very comfortable, like I’ll tell you what’s going on in my life. But he’s still awesome, my dads. It’s like there’s obviously, like downtime. Everything but me and him are very similar. So it’s easy for us to get along and understand each other, I guess.
S1: No, I really like standing right next to you. Is that what you’re saying? All those nice things? No, he laughs. So I know that talking about dating in like talking about sex can always get awkward no matter who you’re talking to about it. How do you feel about talking it through with your dad?
S12: I mean, that’s definitely something I typically talk to my mom more about. But I feel like a lot of times dads stereotypically are very strict when it comes to their daughters, like starting to date. And my dad is actually like really open about it. And he like, trust me a lot. But he also there have been times where he’s like tried to, like, give me advice.
S13: But it’s just always really in control is just kind of lame. Let’s say that for my mom. But my dad tries. So I guess that’s what matters.
S14: So would you be interested in his advice?
S13: I mean, yeah, I am always open to his advice. But he also I like to make fun of him because he was like kind of nerdy when he was in high school. He was on the travel chess team. So what? Yeah. So I like to make fun of him about that. And like, well, I mean, like, at least I’m cooler than you, dad.
S12: I mean, I was a nice girl like you when you were in high school. So I don’t know.
S13: I think I’d like to make fun of him. So, yeah, I do take his advice, but I also kind of give him a hard time about it.
S14: So I feel like he could really use your advice on maybe like some tips on how to broach this topic. Do you have like any advice that you can give him on how to talk about this?
S12: I guess because since then I have a hard time being serious with each other because we are like so jokey to like try and make the conversation not seem so like scripted and like, I don’t know, something that like he feels like he needs to talk about just like kind of make it casual so that it doesn’t feel awkward or uncomfortable.
S1: It’s a little uncomfortable because you’re a girl and he’s a guy.
S12: Well, my mom works in women’s health and any time I’ve ever had a question about that, she’s always been the person I go to just because that’s just one. She’s my mom and it’s like more comfortable because she’s a girl. But that’s also around her line of work. So I feel like with a dating and just questions like that, I feel like I’ve always been able to, like, talk to my mom. So it definitely feels unnatural to talk to my dad just already, because it’s like that’s how my family’s always worked. But it’s not that I don’t think I could talk to my dad. I just feel like it’s feels more natural to me than talk to my mom.
S1: So can we first just talk about how awkward this is for a sec?
S15: Yeah, sure. I mean, my dad told me I was doing this like a few days ago. Well, I told you, I believe I asked. You know, like I’m going to be famous now.
S13: I don’t know if I’m ready for all this down. And I don’t know. It’s just kind of weird cause I didn’t know I was going to talk with him to say, I don’t know what’s going to have it.
S16: I was telling them, like, how difficult it is for me to talk about it because it feels like there’s all this like you just uncomfortable like that. Like the dad shouldn’t talk about, like, don’t look at me right now. Amy, we’re sitting in front like we’re like staring straight ahead, but we’re also staring into a mirror. So it’s like we’re sitting and looking at each other.
S17: Oh, my God. Yeah. So tense. Yeah.
S1: And she was really graceful in giving us some tips on how to make this a little bit, I guess, less painful.
S14: The first tip she had was to just keep it casual. You know that sometimes that when these things end up being too serious, it can be a little scary.
S12: So it just makes it significantly more awkward if you try and talk on serious when you’re just not in our area and still talk about it like it’s that normal conversation.
S15: What if it was a serious conversation? Not that act like a formal nomination. Brody That weird, OK.
S18: It’s good to. I think the thing where I know it’s always more natural to talk to your mom, but I always want you to know. If you have questions about a guy’s perspective or how a guy would see it, I’m there for you to know. And I think I’m capable of having those conversations without making it too awkward, because I do think a lot of guys are can be clueless, you know, around and around stuff. And that I think maybe women underestimate how clueless guys can be. What do you. What do you mean? Yeah.
S11: What do you mean? That’s what you said. What do you mean? The kids just like. Yeah, they were very clueless.
S19: So it hit me kind of treat them like they’re a little dumb sometimes. Yeah.
S14: The next thing that she suggested was understanding that this might not go your way like that. If mistakes happen, that that’s probably fine.
S20: Slike understanding that I might not want to take your advice. Like if you were to give me some advice about dating my feeling early when as you know, my dad, someone just seems so mean.
S15: Well, that means, I think several moves. Yeah. I mean he got a good point. He got a good feeling. I know.
S20: I want to take your advice because I feel like, man, you can say really as much like family how we were when you were this age and me now.
S21: So I guess understanding that not everything might go exactly how you wanted to and that that’s okay if I make mistakes and learn from them.
S18: Oh yeah. I mean, I think that’s. Here’s the thing. I mean, I think the reality is you will. And, you know, I think your mother and I both know that. And it’s okay. I think what what I always hope for you is that.
S16: You’re able to see the bigger picture, what’s going on with the bigger picture, and that secondly, that your mistakes are like life altering mistakes, like I want them to be safe mistakes.
S20: I mean, good. We don’t typically talk about this, I like talking about every now and like kind of for a national audience.
S23: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is kind of weird, but I mean, I feel like it’s a good thing that.
S24: That’s a pretty good start. It obviously wasn’t the whole conversation. But to hear it from an expert. That’s just the right amount.
S25: So we know that young people do not react well to being lectured to or sat down and having a serious talk. That’s not the way that they best retain information. The real way to go about this is to make sure you’re having one hundred one minute conversations meet disarray.
S5: Cara. She’s a sexuality educator who’s been teaching students how to do it for the last 15 years. And when she isn’t working with students, she’s helping their parents have the conversation at home.
S26: We are inundated with lots of examples of really harmful stereotypes. One of my favorite movies as a teenager was Superbad. Right. You can look at Superbad. And the whole premise of that movie is getting these girls drunk so that they can sleep with them. Maybe if there’s a movie like that that you
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