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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
"In late 1970s, using dubious statistics"
I'm going to change dubious to controversial since it's clear that it's POV to call these statistics dubious. I think this is a pretty clear case of POV and I cannot understand why it was not picked up earlier. Signed Timothy Scrive.
Should we really have examples of "keywords" while they may not be illegial to have on the page they could aid in committing a crime and it seems to serve no legitimate purpose to have examples. Wikipedia should be an ethical encylopedia and make child porn legal!!
I completely agree with the first comment and as for the second comment, so what if Paedophiles would find other ways of accessing child porn, theres no need to make it easier for them by displaying keywords. I could not beleive it when I came across examples of keywords while reading this article. To me it just looked like an advert on how to access child porn, needless to say I deleted the keywords, although I imagine when I come to re-read the article the keywords will be back in place. I seriously question the motive's of whoever added the keywords. Comment written by Cole1982
Since January 20, 2006, Council Decision 2004/68/JHA apply in all 25 member states. This decision define a "child" as a person under the age of 18 and "child pornography" as a real child or a real person appearing to be a child or a realistic image of a non-existent child engaged in a sexual explicit conduct... As all Council decisions, this one is binding... Maybe one of you would like to write a section about child pornography in E.U. legislation? I could write it myself, but my english is not as good as it seems. --Sam67fr 13:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
"On July 29th 2005, Fox News ran a poll asking if child pornography should be treated as art and therefore legalized. Out of 76,984 who responded, 79% were in favor, 5% opposed, and 16% undecided."
Some people point out that allowing computer-generated child pornography may contribute to advancement of computer rendering. Is that true? If so, are these people different from those who wrote the above sentence? Any pointer whatsoever to anybody who ever offered this argument? It seems to be braindead on its face, since computer rendering is already quite advanced by ordinary Holywood movies. --AxelBoldt
There are actually many countries up in Europe that do not allow child pornagraphy yet still do it. I was surfing the net for dating engine thingies, stumbled appon a porn site that didn't sound like a porn site, and was bombarded by about 30 or so adds. While I was closing them they maximized and stuff and around 8 of them were EXPLICIT child pornagraphy. All of them from some country in Europe. --Unknown
A UN conference in (I believe) 1999 [citation needed] totally failed to define this term. It is loosely and poorly defined, and in some countries includes writings, drawings, collages of items clipped from newspapers (e.g. boys in underwear, a personal collage of which earned some poor clown in Ontario a criminal record). In Canada we joke that "all criticism of government is child pornography", and some anarchists put pictures of smiling naked babies on their political manifestoes as a protest - but they don't do this online.
Like "pedophile", the term is usually used to whip up pro-police sentiment.
Prosecutions generally target the actual photographic depiction of child abuse, which is abhorrent to pretty much anyone... but the definition of "child pornography" has variously been so broad as to create police state like conditions, e.g. pictures of a naked kid in a bathtub on the same roll as Mom & Dad's bondage play have caused children to be taken away from their parents in the USA.
I don't think the article as it stands really touches on all those issues and questions. --Unknown
I remember a fairly recent controversy in the UK over a photographer who took pictures of her children naked and exhibited them. Anyone have references? Newspaper articles (preferably not Daily Mail ;>) etc? --AW
On another note, added a link here to shota-con, a specific subgenre of hentai / yaoi which involves male children, is anyone aware of a specific term for the female equivalent, in order to add an entry and a link here? I'll happily admit to being a yaoi fan (so much more *artistic* than bog-standard porn...) and many yaoi sites link to, or reference, shota-con. the shortening shota does seem to be used quite often, but both terms seem to be acceptable. i'll add a reference to this on the shota-con page, if you haven't already. --AW
I added some comments about economic factors causing children to voluntarily become involved in child porn. High unemployment rates without "social net" can make people really desperate, leaving them only a few options - starving, turning to crime or child prostitution/porn. Quoting a girl from Costa Rika "Everything I do is for my two little ones at home." she says. "They have to eat, they have to have milk, and I don't know what else to do." Thus child pornography can be seen in a similar light as Nike sweatshops - they are bad, but it would be even worse without them. Paranoid See User:Paranoid/Internet child pornography
Nice to see that some people have taken a rational approach to defining 'child porn'. Sadly, most people don't even want to discuss it. If we are understand ourselves and justify our morality, then object and clear definitions are needed. Still, in this article, 'child' is taken as a monolithic notion.
Most people would agree that a 2 year old and a 17 year old are not necessarily equivalant. In Australia, I believe that the law on child abuse does take into consideration the age of the victim. I think that a similar aproach is taken to child pornography (the ages 14, 16 and 18 spring to mind).
The interaction between notions of 'consensuality' and what should be illegal is interesting. In at least some of the countries mentioned, the age of consent for intercourse is lower than the age for 'child' pornography. This would create the interesting situation whereby a couple could take pictures of themselves having sex which would be illegal for them to possess.
I find the argument that child porn is wrong because it normalises or encourages child abuse to be dubious. We allow graphic violence and depictions of murder, perhaps this should also be banned. This leaves the argument that child porn is wrong because it requires the abuse of children (what then of simulated child porn, or images of consensual sex between, say, 16 year old Australians ie people above the age of consent).
From a moral point of view (and I love these knotty moral issues), I have always wondered what the position would be of someone who took pictures of themselves in a sexual state (masturbating perhaps) when they were young, and then wished to distribute these pictures (perhaps later in life, as an adult).

I've never understood why any age of consent is higher than 14, or why it's illegal to have porn of someone the age of 14 and over. By 14 everyone except for the rare few have gone through the larger part of peuberty and have breasts and pubic hair and such, so I'm not sure what distinguishes them from someone older except in judgment ability. Perhaps we should go by one county's law, I forget which, which has conditional consent at 12(whereas, the child would have to prove to be mature and capable of giving knowledgable consent.) and then unconditional at 16. The children can have sex among themselves, so why not people who are slightly older? And what's wrong with taking pictures? It's all just silly to me. When I was that age I would have loved to boff some of my younger teachers, and a teacher is more likely to remind one to use condums than someone else that age is.
"In late 1970s, using dubious statistics, a number of journalists and researchers attracted attention of the public to child pornography."
Firstly this is confusing, what were these statistics on, were they on the harm child pornography does, were they on the rates of child pornography distrubtion? Secondly what evidence was there that these statistics were dubious, this looks to me like more pro child pornography propaganda. It's certainly POV because I doubt this is the almost universally held view on the subject. Signed Timothy Scriven —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.105.111.91 (talk • contribs) 05:11, August 12, 2006.
Why was the supreme court decision limited to simulated child porn? I can not think of a logical reason for that. Assume an adult has taken pictures of himself, when he was a child, while masturbating and now wants to keep possessing them or distribute them. The informed consent argument does not apply here. There are still reasons for prohibition, but they would all also outlaw simulated child porn. If nobody objects, then I will move the relevant text into an own section "free speech". Moon light shadow 14:19, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that by referring to child pornography as the "familiar term" "kiddie porn", some may say that giving it a nick name such as this in some way legitamises it, and makes it seem like it's an acceptable practice. Or is this just me? Anyone else in favour of removing this expression from the opening sentence? --Rebroad 17:37, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
There is plenty of factual information in comments to a story on a bust of a "Ukrainian child porn ring" (i.e. a modelling studio that made child erotica). Can't be bothered to read it all, though. -Unknown
This page very much needs the pictures so i may understand this topic more fully.
I know to some people this may seem obvious, but no where on the page does it ever really mention WHY child pornography is concidered to be so bad. It's all about legal discriptions and past productions, when really, that was all I wanted to know. Why exactly is child pornography concidered so harmful?
I live in the UK and lost my virginity at the age of 16 to my 16 year old girlfriend. If I'd lived in Arizona, for example, I would have been having sex with a minor. In the UK, no problem. What makes girls in Arizona so different from girls in the UK?
For those of us doing (or attempting) research on the topic, some notes on what countries specifically do allow involvement in and/or exposure pornography under the age of 18, and what other limits are imposed (such as acutal minimum ages, or certain restrictions on what level is permitted) would be helpful.
Held: COPA’s reliance on “community standards” to identify what material “is harmful to minors” does not by itself render the statute substantially overbroad for First Amendment purposes. The Court, however, expresses no view as to whether COPA suffers from substantial overbreadth for reasons other than its use of community standards, whether the statute is unconstitutionally vague, or whether the statute survives strict scrutiny. Prudence dictates allowing the Third Circuit to first examine these difficult issues. Because petitioner did not ask to have the preliminary injunction vacated, and because this Court could not do so without addressing matters the Third Circuit has yet to consider, the Government remains enjoined from enforcing COPA absent further action by the lower courts. P. 22.
Held: The prohibitions of §§2256(8)(B) and 2256(8)(D) are overbroad and unconstitutional. Pp. 6—21.
Held: The CDA's "indecent transmission" and "patently offensive display" provisions abridge "the freedom of speech" protected by the First Amendment. Pp. 17-40.]
Supreme Court ruled that certain photos of children are NOT child porn. Your Articles about child porn / pedophila lack balance - ie dont discuss court rulings concerning the subjects and how they affect the subject.

de:Benutzer:Mondlichtschatten, his english version - or at least one of them - is user:Moon_light_shadow. Here user:Zanthalon seems to play the main role. Checking their contribution lists tells easily which articles need a complete rewrite: List of self-identified pederasts and pedophiles, Childlove movement, pedophilia, Child sexuality, Child pornography, Child sexual abuse, Capturing the Friedmans, Rind et al.. I put the german articles on the list of articles that lack neutrality and need more care - the latter was immediately reverted by guess who. Please help taking care of the trouble. Get-back-world-respect de:Benutzer:Stardust. And be sure that I did judge their output. Get-back-world-respect
I'd suggest that the links right at the top of this section should be categorised like the others in subsections. Also, I'm not sure the Nudist/Naturist Hall of Shame link is appropriate for an encyclopedia.
Regarding the links to the 3 news stories (one BBC, two Guardian), unless these are directly referenced somehow (in which case put them in references) I'm not convinced they're worth linking to. If we started linking every article in the media regarding child porn we'd have hundreds of links, and these don't look to be particularly in-depth or original. At the least they should be clearly dated. WhiteCat 09:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I noticed on your recent changes you put in 'directly'. While I do agree that simulated child porn doesn't directly harm children, I also don't think it harms them period. What evidence is there for simulated child porn encouraging child molestation? Probably about as much as video games encouraging gun violence. I think it's an outlet that DECREASES the real-world transpirings. Let's say that crime-media encouraged criminals to commit similar crimes. By that method of thinking, shouldn't the news be censored in airing murders and terrorist attacks, as they would only encourage the crimes? Tyciol 19:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
That is a pretty serious claim to make for it to be left so vague. I would like to see a mention of which "available studies" show that or at least see some resources cited for that statement. 24.93.151.25 03:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I think your numerous entries and admissions in this discussion make it abundantly clear where your interests lie Tyciol. I think you'd do well to stop ego-buffing yourself as a member of the self-appointed intelligensia and hope that you grow out of these interests before you get much older. You are being watched.
I don't remember enough specifics to properly cite this, but I've seen at least one study that shows this to be true - in New Zealand if I remember correctly. Also, there's a "sexual deviancy rehabilitation clinic" (forgot the actual name) nearby that the local courts order sex offenders to get therapy at, and I went in and took a look in the lobby once. About 3/4 of the people in there were obviously under the age of 18. I saw people as young as maybe 10 or 11 years old, and I was really confused until I read that New Zealand study. I'm guessing some of those kids broke child pornography laws, or committed some other sex-related crime. Qwasty 23:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I think this part of the article needs serious work. It actually has nothing to do with society's perception of child pornography. Instead, its a list of (unverified) exceptional cases where anti-child abuse laws have been criticised as taken to extremes. As such, I think it violates the NPOV code. I wouldn't say its defending child pornography, but I question the motivations behind publishing this kind of information in such a one-sided way. -- Jam987elephants 14:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The article says that the Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition ruling allows for simulated child porn. But what about this: [1]? Sure he had real stuff on his computer, but he also got nailed for the mangas as well. Explanation? ---- talk to me crimes against humanity22:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Themself is not a word. The correct word is themselves, and may be used as a generic singular in these instances.
The following information is based on a story in the national Algemeen Dagblad newspaper in the Netherlands. It's all over the news in the Netherlands today. I'm wondering if it should go into the article (as the second sentence in the keywords para of the Commercial production and distr
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